Argo...this! "..but I find that there is an extremist Lesbian community that can be awfully gross. My sister (who has 2 Mothers-in-Law) and I have discussed this."

You have completely summed up my concerns on this. Though I disagree with homosexuality, I'm one that doesn't judge, nor condemn. People CAN disagree with choices while still adoring people making said choices.

With THAT said, what's made me most disgusted is simply the part of the Lesbian community that have taken a SECTION of the Sanvers fanbase (and Supercorp) to a whole new level of gross, from what I've experienced online...which, IMHO takes away from the "innocence" and unity the show once exhibited. ..and hinders their "cause." So, I've learned just to hang here in our lovely Supergirl community. It USE to be fun "out there," though...watching Supergirl trend and get more recognition in social media. But Eric and Kelsey are correct...the whole feel of a chunk of the fanbase has gone awry--either being gross or just simply fighting online. Boooo.

Mon El is going to tear the fandom apart. It's only going to get worse as the season continues.

The myopic focus on this character and his relationship with Supergirl has altered the basic dynamic of the show.

Let's agree to disagree. I do not see at all what is wrong with him. Mon-El is an awesome character with much humour and wit, well portrayed and well written. A fine addition to the second season, and carries the show when other characters let it down.

I don't know if your problem is with Mon-El or with Kara having a relationship and I don't see how either is a bad thing. If you think Kara's love life is a distraction to a show about her, yet the heavy focus on the love life of a supporting character isn't, then I don't quite understand the reasoning.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

this right here is an example that causes divisiveness. A blank statement of "he is becoming the second lead" as the OP mentioned without any backup. fact is he was barely in "Martian Chronicles" and "the Luthors". Leads dont go missing for whole episodes like that.

I know I have ranted a few times about guardian but I would never begrudge or think less of someone if they liked the Guardian.

First off I’d like to start by thanking the admins of this site. Next I would like to thank my fellow contributors for keeping it the most respectful fan site I have belonged to in a long time. People have disagreed with me but never once have I felt it was personal nor has anyone taken it personally when I disagree with them. I’m not on twitter but have recently quit the FB pages of every other Supergirl site but this one and the official site from CW, and I am seriously considering ditching that one.

Cat said it last season “A woman has to work twice as hard to be thought of as half as good”. The fact that we are getting a third season is a testament to the cast, crew, and as much as we love to hate them the writers. I read somewhere that the show almost didn’t happen because some people in a focus group saw the pilot and were “uncomfortable” with Supergirl being punched by a man. I believe it’s unprecedented for a show with ratings as high to change networks, so that’s yet another challenge.

I do think some of the fandom division mirrors the current deeply divided social/political climate in the United States. Arrow is too dark for me but I do watch Flash and occasionally Legends but it seems that of all the shows in the Berlantiverse Supergirl is the one chosen to be more than just entertainment, they want it to mean something. It’s the only one that really tackles hot button issues. Example, it would be pure denial to think having Mxy call Supergirl a Nasty Woman wouldn’t be seen as a political statement. Side note Melissa probably enjoyed that as well as being able to say “you want to see nuts, let’s go nuts”. I know that type of thing’s not on Flash. Bottom line addressing or even mentioning hot button social issues is going to attract irrational haters and season two has stepped that up.

The most hate seems to be reserved for James and Mon-El and I think there’s a connection. First there were haters who didn’t like Mehcad being cast in the first place. The fact that James wasn’t written well compared to the other characters in season one and I think it’s safe to say hasn’t been written better in season two only fuels the James haters. Mon-El on the other hand is well written, you don’t have to like a character to think they are well written. I think the show did a disservice to both characters by the abrupt end to James/Kara. I get how it looks bad to have Kara break up with the human guy representing a minority group because she wants to concentrate on her career only to hook up with the an alien guy who’s racially speaking the closest to her in the universe. This caused some of the Mon-El hate right out of the gate. I wouldn’t have liked this either if I thought the producers were racially motivated but I just don’t see that given their track record. It would have been better if the writers had had Kara and James go on a couple of awkward dates then mutually decide to go back to being good friends thus avoiding the James verses Mon-El thing.

I’ll admit last summer when the EPs said a character on the CW DC shows would explore their sexuality I had no doubt it would be Alex. My first reaction was please don’t, because I thought of all the ways it would bring hate upon the show. I imagined the writers botching it and the LGBTQ community rightfully being disappointed. Thanks be to Rao that didn’t happen as most agree the story line was well written and superbly acted. Unfortunately the other expected hate is still happening.

In final summery love this site and let’s continue the constructive discussions.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

I'm definitely following your argument here, Lindy. I have to wonder...we the audience already know something isn't "right" with Mon-el...he's been lying. So perhaps a lot of focus is being given to Mon-El because his backstory/lie is about to alter Kara in a big way...i.e...she FINALLY lets herself feel and believe that she can let her guard down, let someone in, and "have everything." Then...BAM! The truth comes out. So...I'm right there with you on wishing all these side characters weren't pulling screen time away from the OG crew. But, I see where the writers MIGHT be headed...and thus I can see why perhaps SO much time is being given to Mon-El.

I just wish all breaking off "fandoms" could remember the BIG picture. We shall see.

As an additional practical issue, last season it would have been far more difficult to have divisive subfandoms, because the number of characters who were prominent was less. In the pilot, other than Kara you might have had Miss Grant fandom (continuing character) or Vartox fandom (self-liquidating). The authors are moving toward a show with interwoven threads as opposed to Supergirl finds target. Supergirl smites target, so now there can be gentle readers who want one thread or another to get more air time and interviews.

Readers who were around in Fall 2015 will nonetheless remember that we had some really vigorous disputes on these pages.

I was here, and it was nothing like what we are seeing today, last season it was mostly the "sky is falling" group hovering over the ratings, and those that just wanted to enjoy the show. Or, those that were unhappy with some of the writing, other than that...there just wasn't much in the way of divisiveness. On twitter, it was fantastic, the fans on twitter save a few, again, "the sky is falling" people it was a great time to be had by all.

One thing I've noticed....and it just now hit me, there are a few from the "sky is falling" over the ratings that NOW that we already know there is a 3rd season, they are no where to be seen. Ehhhh.... *sighs*

I wish I could be of some help here. was the Valentine's day episode, after all. One might have proposed that therefore each of these events we saw peaked for this episode and we will be seeing something else at least more in the future. To satisfy all the readers, the shows would need to be three hours long. Daily. It seems to me that the threads here have mostly been reasonable, even on a topic as delicate as the one noted by the administrator. However, please be nice, everyone. It matters.I write as someone who made a few suggestions last year about the rules as written, and occasionally has suggested things this year.

Having said that, let me urge you all to punch up the "support" button if you enjoy being here.

Also this site is awesome. Thanks admin very much for providing such a service.

Well, everybody is the result of their life experiences and values, so comparaison is always going to be part of the exchanges betwin people. But as an individual i'm aware that what i think today maybe not be the same tomorrow because of the masses of experiences i keep having. That's why even if its relevant to give an opinion about something i like or not, i don't find useful to compare situations and characters.

I read a lot of comments about the writing, but i'm one who think that there are a lot of layers between what is in the mind of the writer and what's delivered.
The actors have a part to do with it (and that is probably why i like Melissa Benoist interpretation of Kara so much and maybe someone else could have a total different effect on ma vision of the show).
You can say one ligne of dialog in many differents ways an it's not going to say the same thing. You can said it the same way everytime and not hear the same thing either. Everything is subjectif and very personal in that departement for me.
At that you can add the directors have also a big part to play etc...

Anyway the advice for getting back to a comunity is to enjoy what you like and not focus your energy towards what you don't like. (i hope i speak english by the way!)

I have seen a great many comments here and elsewhere saying Mon El-Kara ship is great because Mon-El's and Kara's (or Chris' and Melissa's) chemistry is great.

That is a pretty good reason for falling for someone. a. the on-screen chemistry is great. b. he is funny.

Think of it from the POV of a Kara-James shipper.

She dropped a perfectly great guy for someone who is a jerk and who is also in this culture, the epitome of white privilege. (As I said before, she didn't stay firm on that whole focusing on her career bit for long.)

If you don't see yourself represented in a leading way all that much, and if you see yourself being powerless in a lot of situations and being discriminated against just because of your colour, and you see the same thing enacted on screen. (or even a nerd, in the case, of Winn).

It's a story and story has effects on people. In real-life, you could say you fall for whom you will, but in stories, what you show is a choice from the show-runners. In real-life, you could say that Kara could not hold to her promise to explore her career and being single further, that you could have both at the same time, but in the story, the message you are saying is that Kara cannot be happy being single.

See how lonely she was before she confessed her liking for Mon El. It is not because her friends were abandoning for their own things (which would have been a great reason that they could have explored), it was because she had no romance in her life. Even her missing Alex is because, Alex says, she is trying not to focus on Mon El. Owing to her abandonment issues. Not because she misses her sister who has been with her from the day she landed on earth and was now spending all her free time with her new love, but because she has feelings for Mon El, which she is trying to ignore. Not because her sister missed her earth birthday, the day which would have officially marked that she has spent more time with Danvers and on Earth than with her own parents and her planet, (13 as opposed to 12).

Besides, you can't have it both ways. When people point out the abusive and rather harmful messages embedded in the show, you can't say "Oh! This is just a TV show and fictional characters; people, should not bother so much" (to put it gently) and then, when you point out how the story doesn't work because messaging is weird that "But, this is how it happens in real life. People may make resolutions but fail them all the time."

I am not attacking Kara-Mon El ships here. I am just listing out the POVs. Though, as far as Mon El is concerned most of it match (except, I used to like him and I like Chris Wood).

Besides, there is chemistry.

Speaking of that.

Kara-Lena shippers and how they hate Mon El so much.

Think of it from their perspective:

If Lena was a guy, and he had the same chemistry with Kara--basically, what is going on with Mon El (the actors, I mean)--the show would have gone for that relationship. Like Monica and Chandler.

Instead, just because Lena is a woman the show-runners wouldn't. And a lot of folks' attitude to Kara-Lena shippers is at best "Oh, those poor delusional folks..." and at worst "Why do they want more? Don't they have a gay character already? This is a straight show." May be said a bit more politely.

The above appears very condescending to gay folks. It is like they are being told: "Hey! We gave you one character! Be happy with it. Just how demanding are you?". The message is: This is a world of straight people, made for straight folks, and any scraps they get, the gay people should be grateful for it."

Or... "Why don't they just make shows for themselves, then?"

If, the show-runners could make a gay Supergirl and have the show survive then that would be a miracle. More so than POC although, I think it works quite to a great extent there too. We would have seen a proliferation of minority-based shows if those were really a lucrative option.

[Basically, this is the story of every minority people who want to see themselves in the stories they consume. It's their powerlessness. Any right they have, any happiness they could get, can be taken away at the whim of the majority. And the powerful, some of them, think that the little bit of representation they get is just enough or some times too much. An implied, "Take it where we can't see it." Basically, they (we, really, I am gay, POC, woman, and yeah most of the time aromantic ) have to fight for stuff which a lot of people get without asking. And even after the fighting, what they have is fragile and can be taken away so very easily.]

When you get comments like that directed at you, the dislike you feel for a Kara-Mon El ship is quite understandable. Even if you know, quite positively, that Kara-Lena ship is never going to happen in Canon. Even if you know that Alex is a secondary character and Maggie a tertiary character, so Alex-Maggie is never going to get much screen time when compared to the cis-het ship. Even if you know that, may be, just may be, Mehcad Brooks had more chemistry with Kara as a friend than as a romantic interest. Although, in James' case, it may be possible that folks are still hopeful of a potential romance there. I don't know.

As for the people who employ bullying in twitter and elsewhere, well, they are, as Everafr said possibly kids. Hopefully. If not. Well, hope they get better, but, I won't get into a relationship with them, if they promise to do better based just on that promise. ;-)

And none of this is a whole lot of how the group in which I fall feel. Not to mention I myself feel.

Great comments from our members. Good reading. Keep it up.

As for people who miss Cat Grant and M'gann (you didn't add her, I did):

The show has four regular male characters, and two female characters and people still think it is female skewing. Some of the comments suggest "That we men need something too." Even though, we barely have any woman other than Alex sharing screen time with Kara (unless, it is the Lena beat that happens at times). We have no Kara supporting M'gann. Instead, it is just J'onn supporting M'gann. (We didn't even get an Alex supporting M'gann directly. or much of an interaction therein. Her support was for J'onn.).

Oh... and we even have M'gann in that support telling to J'onn "You showed me how to be brave." M'gann, the person, who stood up to an entire powerful race and refused to do their bidding, M'gann, who went up against her own culture alone because she was standing up for what she believed, in telling J'onn that he showed her how to be brave. Because he stood up to a couple of White Martians with the help of powerful friends.

The dialogue would have made sense if M'gann had said "You showed me how to forgive myself." But not, the inspiration was bravery.

So,.. That feminist theme. Seems pretty lacking what with all the story of Guardian, Kara spending most of her time with Mon El and all the focus, since the first episode on Kara-Mon El, and whatever time allotted to M'gann being devoted to J'onn-M'gann.

Along with some of the criticism above and in my previous comments, what I have an issue with is the lack of Danvers sisters time, lack of friend time and the lack of a coherent story. And how out of character some from S1 appears to be.

Alex seems to no longer care to spend time with Kara. She keeps letting Kara go on missions alone with no support or strategic input. And when Kara, just once, says she would like to spend time with her, Alex says that "Kara is trying to make her guilt" (that was the White Martian, but he/she/it was channeling Alex) and then, later, says that Kara is not really missing Alex, but Mon El.

In the previous episode, when her city's safety and her sister's life's happiness was at stake, Alex was away in her valentines' day angst. We don't get to see her giving Kara any support at all (except for the Mon-El is jealous comment; it was not typical S1 support.)

Oh... and Mon El has taken over as Kara's side-kick. Rather than Alex. It is no longer the sister duo crime-fighting team; it is the Alien couple crime-fighting team. That is what they said in this last episode anyways.

Oh and neither Alex, nor Kara, nor J'onn seems to care what happened to Jeremiah. There is no indication at all that they are searching for him.

And Kara has been spending most of her time getting Mon El to be a hero. (The few minutes that are not part of the Cadmus story where she spends time with Lena, or the other few minutes, when she spends with Guardian).

She professes to want to be a journalist at the start of the season, but we barely see any of that. Except when it is expedient for the show to have the Cadmus and Lena storyline.

And in my opinion, they could have made the Mon El story a lot more compelling. They didn't do that. They could have shown his struggle instead of showing some funny lines and then, basically making him a brat (fratboy) who "supposedly" learns to care for other people (though, so far, we have seen him care only for his romantic interest). We barely see any of that. So, basically, the only reason for a viewer to invest on him is that a. he is funny. b. he has chemistry with Melissa. c.He was a rather ordinary selfish guy who is now trying to be good.

They could have shown it from her POV, why she liked him. (I saw suggestions in another site where they said the show could have at least suggested that, she is going with Mon El, because she can have intimacy with him without fear of crushing him; which is a very valid point; and that she is probably overlooking a great many things just for some form of that; Or, may be, she wants to discuss Krypton with him.. and she has some feeling of unwarranted closeness with him because of Rao (their shared religion or affinity to star or something). But, she says none of that; the show doesn't show that. The show only shows his POV with her succumbing to it.)

And... Aside from Cadmus storyline (which I don't know how they will treat), the rest of the season is about Mon El and the folks who come searching for him. So, basically, 60-70% of the season is Kara-Mon El romance and the fall out. With most of it from his POV (that is the third or fourth time I am saying it; I am getting repetitive and I am bored with myself.).

How does the line "this season and this show is at its core about relationships between women and how they support each other" gel with that?

I think if the Mon El story was compelling enough and not a repeat of such a tired cliche, most people would have supported the eventual romance (at least, that is the inkling I get). Especially, if it didn't take so much time away from the women and Alex-Kara, Alex-Kara-J'onn and Kara and her friends. It's not as if gay people don't support or ship straight ships. They wouldn't have survived otherwise. Ditto for POC. It's not as if they don't see or enjoy a white cast.

Me? I am missing the Season 1 dynamic and Alex who cared about her sis and family and who always put them first sorely. And James who cared about Kara's feelings and Winn who would have never went behind her back for some vigilante hijinks.

Note: I like Chris Wood (what I have seen of him) and most of the time I like Mon El, though not so much these past couple of episodes. This definitely is not a criticism of Chris' acting.

Good Day!

Jondix squeeze kiwi ... and gets an orange juice ... kidding, my hug was too hard :-*
evrafter where are you ?

Over here *waves and jumps up and down*

Part 1

Eric, you have raised a very interesting topic. A lot of what I have seen written thus far, I agree with. I am going to try to address it from several POVs.
General Storyline – Season 2 thus far is not as good as Season 1. There are several reasons for this IMO. The departure of Cat Grant was a significant loss and there has not been actor of her caliber to replace her. It is not the EP’s fault she did not follow, but I believe they need to find a comparable character and plot. The overall stories have not been as good, though I think Season 2.2 is showing vast improvements. Sterling Gates and his co-writer put together a fantastic story. We do need humor and cultural references. M/MM achieved that and I will admit I am looking forward to the musical. We do need some fun.
There are too many storylines going on and that dilutes the power of the show and the actors. If they stayed with the Cadmus Arc and Kara’s Journalism as promised, then they would be more concentrated. This would not leave out Lena, Mon-El, and Alex.
Now let’s look at our actors: James is a problem. He reminds me of Pirandello’s “Six Actors in search of a Play”. He has no proper role in the show and I believe that is a large part responsible for the negativity. They need to establish a sound role or get rid of the character. This is not a comment on Mehcad’s acting skills.
Lena is an excellent addition. The grayness of her character coupled with Cadmus and the fantastic villainy of Brenda strong is an asset. It fits with the Arc.
Mon-El is a great addition. The on-screen chemistry with Kara is fantastic. I enjoy it very much. They remind me of Tracey and Hepburn; Bruce Willis and Sybil Shephard. There is a lot of fun in their give and take. As for the romance, come on! Let’s give the girl a break! She deserves happiness and love beyond family.
I miss Sisters Night and the writers and EPs have committed a mortal sin in discarding it. Regardless of relationships, they can spend time together. This is a big failure and they need to return to it.
Maggie is controversial. Not because she is a Lesbian, but because whose she’s hooked up with. I take that back. A lot of people just freak out at the thought or representation of a gay relationship. I think the Eps have handled it very respectfully, but I for one was very much against Alex being the chosen one. I believe it sent the wrong message that you can be a tough woman who prefers jeans and pants, loves her weapons and not be heterosexual. I am afraid it establishes a stereotype. I noted that he Valentines’ scene with Maggi in a type of Tux and Alex in a dress sent a subliminal and perhaps unintended message: Maggie is the dominant partner in this ship. Personally, I was offended. Again, Alex has been made all wishy this year in this regard and I think it contrary to her character.

Argo

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

this right here is an example that causes divisiveness. A blank statement of "he is becoming the second lead" as the OP mentioned without any backup. fact is he was barely in "Martian Chronicles" and "the Luthors". Leads dont go missing for whole episodes like that.

I know I have ranted a few times about guardian but I would never begrudge or think less of someone if they liked the Guardian.

EXACTLY.....I actually envy them......

I'm definitely following your argument here, Lindy. I have to wonder...we the audience already know something isn't "right" with Mon-el...he's been lying. So perhaps a lot of focus is being given to Mon-El because his backstory/lie is about to alter Kara in a big way...i.e...she FINALLY lets herself feel and believe that she can let her guard down, let someone in, and "have everything." Then...BAM! The truth comes out. So...I'm right there with you on wishing all these side characters weren't pulling screen time away from the OG crew. But, I see where the writers MIGHT be headed...and thus I can see why perhaps SO much time is being given to Mon-El.

I just wish all breaking off "fandoms" could remember the BIG picture. We shall see.

Does it make sense to say--after all this talk of anti-Mon El from me--that I hate the thought of Kara getting hurt? So, I'd prefer it working out, but then getting a more integrated group storyline with romance in the periphery?

I don't mind Kara having more character growth, but I don't want her to lose her faith or her optimisim or idealism. I don't want her to grow cynical. It'd be painful.

Supergirl.tv Admin stated:

"Maybe we should show her this thread. Its been thoughtful, respectful, and hopefully healing in some way. I think the vast majority of community here are very respectful and kind. Good fans and good thoughts shared. Ultimately if we can all agree to be fans that live by the motto I shared, I think we will all be able to enjoy the show!"

*******

Sure, why not? As Patrick Stewart as Captain Picard often said on ST TNG: "Make it so."

Just to give an example of a little of what is happening. There was a poster that was railing about the screen time of Mon-El on Monday night. I posted in a tweet that I was enjoying both couples and that I looked at Kara and Mo-Nel's relationship as fireworks and Alex and Maggie's relationship as a warm fire. Meaning, I loved both of the relationships just in different ways. Well, the making fun of tweets started as in her first "would someone please translate this for me, blah, blah, blah." so as with the others I simply muted her. I would love to have conversations with everyone about the show, but you can't right now.

I would think the largest fandom civil war is either between Mon-El shippers and Lena shippers or Guardian haters and Mon-El haters. About Sanvers I think we recall I got involved in a "fight" earlier, but that was because I felt there was too much drama involving Sanvers, not because of LGBT. Either way I think that was resolved too and I'm actually pretty fine about their relationship.