Hmm... I think it is time for my essay because brevity is something I don't know the meaning of.
Okay.

I don't follow Supergirl stuff on twitter (except for taking an occasional look at Chyler's twitter page.) So, I am not sure what's going on there. And, on tumblr, I only follow a select community; so I have not seen much hatred there either. I have heard of it a lot, some of it genuine criticism, and a lot of twitter stuff.

Note before I start: This is not an excuse for any venomous comment anywhere from anyone. There is no excuse for not being decent to other people no matter what their values while talking about a show (if it's a life/death situation or a matter of civic rights or you are being attacked, you may get a little emotional. but this is not about that.)

Disclaimer: The POVs expressed are mine own, but I have noticed a lot of criticism on tumblr, and some of it is derived from empathy. It may be just one POV among many.

If you're a Lena supporter, why do you hate Guardian's screen-time?

I think the comparison is between apples and beef here. Just like James in the Lena episode. All the ire directed at the Guardian arc is not about the increased screen time. It was not there much in the previous season, and James was the love interest!

It's about how sloppily the character has been written. And especially, the entitlement with which he treats the other characters. James thinks that he is owed support from Winn and Kara. He does not appreciate that Winn is risking his job and his life, and stealing from the government to ensure that he stays alive. He doesn't appreciate that Kara is only looking out for his safety.

And worse, in a show watched by a lot of people who are not superheroes but who contribute to society in a lot of different ways such as health workers, teachers, reporters and whatever, he considers the job he does as not being equal to the Supers. And since the writers seem to be on his side, it is all the more like, the show is telling people subtly that violently going at drug dealers and criminals is the only valuable and decent way you could contribute to society.

I mean, it defies logic. If I wanted to compete, I'd compete with someone from a position of my strength. Not of theirs. How can you compete with these folks in superheroics? Your strength is journalism, employ that.

And if it is not about competition as James says, but about making a difference. Again, I'd use my strength. And leave law enforcement to the law enforcement.

How's James with all his tech and Winn's support a hero and not Maggie who does whatever she does without any of that? Or Alex who only, as far as I have seen, has weapon, no additional armour or shield?

By the way, many James supporters do not see some of these aspects, or chose to ignore it because he was a rather decent character in Season 1, and because like any member of a discriminated against community, you tend to overlook deficiencies and look at strengths of a person of your own; and from where they are standing, he is willing to risk his life for others, he is loyal, and he tries to clean up crime. The entitlement issues they probably ignore as poor writing. Basically, they are looking at him with the season-1 lense, with the added good qualities of heroism.

Others may not be part of a minority community, as in a POC, but may empathise for the same reasons.

Lena's story on the other hand is written so as to appeal to anyone with any empathy. She is introduced as someone who wants to step away from the evil shadow of her step brother. Anyone who knows anything about Superman knows how tough a struggle that is with a name like Luthor.

Then, you get to know more about her, and you realise that her mother has been ill treating her since she was a baby. That possibly she lost her mother who had lover her at that same young age. How can anyone not feel for her at that?

And then, she shows a penchant for defying her mother who has been so emotionally abusive to her.

She has shown herself to be generous, at least to Kara (we don't see her anywhere else; but see Kara is a mere reporter, and she is a rich lady with a lot of assets; she is honest, but she is welcoming despite that.). And brave (she has risked her life for things that she believed in) and resourceful and intelligent (as when she took on those villains her mother sent using some device that I don't remember the name of; as well, as during the Medusa episode).

To top it all, her mother is emotionally manipulating her. Or, has been.

And then, there is the mystery about her motives. Because she is such a complex character, you want her to win this fight and emerge on the side of good.

It'd be very difficult for any viewer to not like this combo.

(All in all, I think Lena is the best character they have added to the show this season.)

Essentially I think the conflict in James' life and the arc looks very made-up and tacked on. While Lena's looks like something that can happen to anyone; natural and rich in life.

I had to split my comment; it was turning out to be too long.

Put simply, if you like Maggie Sawyer and Alex Danver's relationship, why don't you like Mon-El?

Well, I am not the person to whom this question is directed at here because I don't ship either of them. (I have noticed over the years that I have a preference for the familial and platonic relationships over romance. Unlike many who think that having a romance is necessary for a fulfilling life, I think I am just fine with friends and family. I am basically asexual and most-of-the-time, though not always, aromantic.)

But, I have been hanging around in tumblr a lot, and other review sites, so I can offer some insights, I believe. Besides, thoughts from some of us folks who are here for the Danvers and folks from Season 1 might also help, right?

Okay.

Alex-Maggie vs. Mon El

Alex's relationship with Maggie has been almost wholly from the point of view of Alex; the character we have been invested in since season 1.

Besides, that you can kind of understand why Alex falls for Maggie. Someone who fights against crime; is open-minded; likes aliens (which is very important to Alex for obvious reasons); is brave and mostly generous.

Alex's coming out arc has been very well handled by the show. A lot of gay people saw themselves and their own experience in that. I saw myself in that.

And because we cannot ignore representation and the message the show is sending.

There has been a lot of happiness that it gave gay folks including teens. It gave validation to a lot of adults who barely see themselves in TV shows especially when it comes to cop shows, procedural and superhero shows.

All of these make them very invested in Alex-Maggie.

Compare that to Mon El.

Ignore the actor and the chemistry between Melissa and Chris for a moment.

His story line is basically this. Told, not from Kara's, our hero's, point of view, but from the point of view of Mon El.

Rich privileged guy (we don't know he is a prince, but we are pretty sure), who has grown up with not a care in the world. Shows the same attitude in the outside world when he comes across our lead character, the woman. He thinks she is selfish and attention-seeking. He doesn't see the point of all this caring for other people.

After a lot of harping from other people, including Alex, he decides that he could do something. (There was this one happening during that cage episode, Changing? when he offers help to someone; that was cool, but it was also fleeting and not touched up on.)

And then, he falls for our lead-character. Because she is pretty decent during the time when the two of them spend time in a cage. Very brave.

And in the next couple of episodes he is back not being all that caring about other people but Kara; he comes to Cat Co and accompanies Kara not because it is the right thing to do but because he wants to spend time with her. And then, he is back to being rather a jerk. Or, at least, telling Kara not to go looking for abducted strangers. Not listening when he is asked to go for backup and instead endangering her. Telling her, that she was looking for trouble when she tries to save them.

But, his crush for her continues, and he falls for her. Because she is very brave this time around too.

And, this is in canon, he says it that he likes her that is why he was with her.

And then, he pines for her by drinking club soda (that by the way is not changing for your love; or being inspired; that is wallowing. and telling his date about his crush).

And Kara is told that.

And the next episode, Kara suddenly decides that she is falling for him too. For what reason? We are not shown that at all. For what reason other than the fact that her friends with their new toys, and her sister with her new love, are ignoring her?

She make an odd speech about him keeping on proving her wrong, which is not quite the truth. He doesn't prove her wrong. She had too low an expectation from him owing to the prejudices, and with that in mind, anything half-way decent he does is considered great in her eyes. (It'd be an interesting story arc if that is what is happening here. That her eyes are blind the other way because she is compensating for her prejudices too much.)

And then, in the previous episode, he tells her that "she is full of herself" and then at the end that she is his kryptonite, and that is why he kept doing all those bad things in this episode. And then, he apologises, and she kisses him.

He keeps hurting her by saying bad things to her. And then apologising. He keeps disappointing her. He keeps saying he is trying, although, we are not shown where he is trying (except when he tries to backup Kara, and even there, he doesn't listen to her; it could be more of a cultural, I need to protect my mate who belongs to me thing and that is how he acts).

And then he ends it by saying all those bad things he did this episode was owing to his love for her. She was the reason for his weakness and his bad choices.

Have you ever heard that anywhere else before? Any of this story?

At best, it is a story that we have seen a lot before. So many times that it is basically a cliche. Rich entitled guy, meets a girl, is touched because she is so unlike what he has encountered until now, and falls for her. She reciprocates because what else could she do? He likes her, so she should reciprocate. They end up married and live happily ever after. They make a great team and fight crime together. The end.

At worst. It is a (not may be "the" picture of an abusive relationship where one of the people involved is not all that great, keeps failing, keeps promising to do better, and then gets forgiven just because he apologises. And oh, and blames at least some, if not all, of his bad choices on the women he "allegedly" crushes on.

And think, that all of this is played unfortunately by an actor who is white, straight and male. With his richness, he is the epitome of privilege in US.

What kind of an idea does this reinforce? What kind of message does that send to any young person watching that. Or a person of any age.

Boys, as long as you promise to do better, even if you don't do well, you will get your dream girl. Boys, that girl saying no to you, doesn't really mean it. She really loves you and is just not aware of it yet. Boys, people will and should always make allowances for your background and your poor upbringing, just like the viewers of the show has been making allowances for Mon El being a Daxamite. I mean the poor guy grew up in that culture. Cut him slack.

Boys, if you are a white guy, you just have to promise to be better. Especially, if instead of being a nerd, geek, insecure kind of person (like Winn), you are the football jock.

While if you are black, like James, you will be dropped for no reason. Even if you are heroic, kind, generous and all that. (The reason that she wants to find herself would have made sense if they had stuck with it; instead, she falls for the next guy who confesses his feelings to her.). And that goes for the nerd too, may be.

Girls: A. If a guy like Mon El confesses his feelings to you, you should totally return that feeling. It'd be weird if you don't. That is what happens in every story. B. See he apologises after being a jerk, so that is all right. C. as of this episode. all the bad choices that your partner makes, that is your fault. And D. no matter how bad, you always give the guy a chance.

Oh and boys and girls, Kara was lonely because she said no to Mon El. And she deserves that fate because she rejected the guy. After he risked his heart for her. (I have seen screenshot of YouTube comments to that effect.) And she dumped James too.

People who do ship Mon El and Kara do say that he is from a different culture and so he cannot be blamed for his attitude and also that he is trying. Although, we have barely seen anything at all where he tries (except for that one second thing at the end of Changing). He does not interact at all with others. All his time is spent with Kara, so we don't even know what he is like in her absence.

So, basically, the show, and everyone who loves the ship seems to want Kara and everyone who opposes the ship to give him credit for what he hasn't done based on what he vows he would do. In show, he might end up fighting for the good. In real-life, how good a message that is I am not too sure. Most of the time, it looks like a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention, how cliched.

And did I say, all the falling for her is shown from his point of view, not hers? In her show, it is his feelings that is the POV. That matters and are given centre stage. She reacts to his. It is not her initiative.

So, Sanvers ship and Mon-El-Kara ships are very different.

(Cont'd) in the next comment.

Mon El is going to tear the fandom apart. It's only going to get worse as the season continues.

The myopic focus on this character and his relationship with Supergirl has altered the basic dynamic of the show.

However with full respect to the Administrators, I will not continue the debate here in a thread intended to foster peace. If you wish we may start a new post and talk it out in a civil manner.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

Wasn't talking about a ship war. I'm saying he's good character. I liked him long before he was a romance interest.

Note: I have not looked at the responses to my comments yesterday (well, yesterday for me).

However, I'd like to add a point and a suggestion. To a lot of the Kara-Mon El shippers and us who feel nostalgic for the good old season 1, the issue has been how peripheral Kara has been to other storylines going on in the season. At least, the past couple of episodes have been Kara-centred and that is one good thing that I found about it.

If the writers had worked to make an integrated storyline keeping Kara at the centre of it all, and taking some time to do it instead of wanting everything yesterday, then I think the show would have been well-served. This could also improve the Mon El storyline.

Note: I am not changing the premise of the story and instead working with the premise we have in Season 2. (Of Aliens having been on Earth for a long time, local cops knowing about it and so on).

Make, new characters like Maggie and M'gann's first point of entry into the group be Kara. Easy enough considering Kara wants to be a reporter. Cop and bar tenders--excellent sources and points of contention if you ask me. The fightclub just adds to it if the storyline was changed to dilute J'onn's and Alex's direct involvement there.

Let J'onn and Alex be peripheral to these stories. and make the interactions there come slowly. So, basically, have Kara invested in these characters based on her own direct interactions, rather than as Alex's love interest or J'onn's blast from the past.

With Mon-El, let Alex and J'onn, with Winn helping, work on dealing with him and his training. Yes, I know, when we have superpowered Alien who can identify with him at hand (and share a star with him at hand), why go for Alex and J'onn and Winn. Well, Alex is a geneticist. It makes it natural for her to do tests on him. Besides she trained Kara. Even without the Kryptonite training room, I am pretty sure the science experts at DC could have found a way for her to do the same with Mon El. And Kara remaining away could be reasoned by both her prejudices due to her childhood, her pain about her own loss which Mon El remains a stark reminder of (all of which was solved in 1 episode), and of course her new reporter duties.

Let Mon El remain the palace guard instead of the Prince or anyone powerful. However, show him struggling with Earth stuff, especially owing to his conservative background (other than his flings, we saw this only the last episode) but also because his whole world was taken away from him. But, show him actually getting impacted and struggling; and improving; but also show that Kara's prejudices have been unjust from Kara's point of view. He could have his funny moments even in this case.

This should be peripheral by the way and not take up the entire time.

I'd leave most of Kara-Lena as is, but would like it if Lena had more interactions with Alex thanks to Cadmus.

In James' case, I'd prefer if he managed change from his position as Cat Co head. But, if the powers that be think that that makes him far removed from the young crowd (I don't agree, but be that as it may), then arrange a situation where he feels really powerless and it makes sense for him to take up arms. Not Kara getting injured or being in a battle because when you consider the power differential that doesn't make sense. But, someone like Eve or a lay person on the street getting hurt, James couldn't do anything, and Supergirl couldn't help because she was busy elsewhere.

And... don't let him blackmail Winn in helping him; or expect that he would get Kara's agreement right away and feel betrayed and injured when she doesn't give him that. And let him not bring up news pieces on himself and his heroism to Snapper.

Let Kara report on these things; on Guardian, on the changes in Alien society owing to both the Alien Amnesty Act and Cadmus (Maggie could work with her here); and of course the big bad of the episode.

And finally, let all of these struggles emerge in parallel with the big bad of the season. Cadmus.

Let that be the thread that ties everything together. So, even James' struggles would be happening in tandem with this.

And with all this going on--let us have (and this is a personal thing, I'd like it)--sister nights or touchbases continue. See Season 1. It's not just the movie nights; it is also walking to Noonan with Kara; having breakfast there with Kara; supporting Kara with every fight; talking to Kara about Cat Grant's article. This season, when have we seen Alex discuss anything but either of their love life with Kara. How about Kara's first article in print? Alex could have teased Kara about it. Shown pride. Told her to go to bars--in fact, that could have been their first meeting with M'gann with Kara taking it forward and Alex supporting.

OH! And let the game nights continue too; not every episode but at least once in the first half hey? Let Alex, James and Winn interact (one of my best additions this season has been Alex-Winn interactions). As in, when James decides to do his thing, he could come to Alex for help. It could be shown instead of just that single moment or two used for comic effect during Thanks Giving and all that.

It would have taken a couple of seasons or more to do it slowly and with the justice it deserves. But, the show wouldn't have divided it fandom into gay people and people who support POC and women and all that.

Right now, M'gann is not there, but when she was there, she was most important to J'onn with her rarely if ever interacting with Kara or Alex. With Maggie, everyone takes her as the gay sister's lover. Which makes most people but the LGBT and the folks who like romance disinterested in that storyline. She should have been Kara's cop friend and the one Alex gets into an argument (may be owing to her protectiveness regarding Kara) first before becoming Alex's girlfriend. And with Mon El, Probably, the showrunners and people who like him see him as Darcy (Pride & Prejudice), but to others, he seems to be a polished Reggie (Archies). With James, to his supporters, he is a hero, but to his detractors, he seems too much like one who likes spotlight a lot rather than one who is genuinely concerned about the state of the world. Lena interacts only with Kara and it says something for both the actors that almost the entire audience is invested in her story (if not the shipping) despite some lacks.

Okay... I am done! If you read so much from me; thank you.

If I have offended/hurt anybody, let me know, and I will keep that in mind in future; and try to do better.

Oh... and keep romance far away--making what Kara said to James actually true--at least for a time. And honestly, I'd prefer they go back to Kara/James provided James remains a relatable character. And even then, let all romances remain periphery with Alex-Kara, Alex-Kara-J’onn and the Kara-Winn-James friendships of season 1 remaining the core of the show. It can expand, but let friendships remain the core.

Yeah besides Guardian I'm pretty much either positive or neutral about all aspects of the show.

Yyeeaahhh... Once I got called "f'ing 'c' word" several times by a certain "crew" for simply sayin to the writers, "Alex and Winn were hilarious tonight," I learned REAL quick to not participate.

Being in Mountain Standard time, I use to watch an hour after eastern/central time, then REwatch on DVR while it was being played on West coast just to be able to follow with the west coast tweets. Buuuutttt... I stopped this season since these new fandoms arose.

As an additional practical issue, last season it would have been far more difficult to have divisive subfandoms, because the number of characters who were prominent was less. In the pilot, other than Kara you might have had Miss Grant fandom (continuing character) or Vartox fandom (self-liquidating). The authors are moving toward a show with interwoven threads as opposed to Supergirl finds target. Supergirl smites target, so now there can be gentle readers who want one thread or another to get more air time and interviews.

Readers who were around in Fall 2015 will nonetheless remember that we had some really vigorous disputes on these pages.

So is there a solution to this?. It seems most of the arguments/wars are over relationships, could they write an entire season (Season 3) without any relationships and focus on work/family and friends or are relationships such an essential part of filling out the time of an episode?.

I know it was a different time but if I think back to 70/80's Superhero shows like Wonder Woman, The Bionic Woman, The Six Million Dollar Man and The Incredible Hulk, they ran for multiple seasons without too much romance/relationships and were pretty much focused on their titular heroes all the time without the need for a big team behind them and additional heroes. Maybe Supergirl in Season 3 can get back to the Main 5 of Supergirl, Alex,MM, Winn and James.

Just a few ideas to throw out there anyway and discuss.

So is there a solution to this?. It seems most of the arguments/wars are over relationships, could they write an entire season (Season 3) without any relationships and focus on work/family and friends or are relationships such an essential part of filling out the time of an episode?.

I know it was a different time but if I think back to 70/80's Superhero shows like Wonder Woman, The Bionic Woman, The Six Million Dollar Man and The Incredible Hulk, they ran for multiple seasons without too much romance/relationships and were pretty much focused on their titular heroes all the time without the need for a big team behind them and additional heroes. Maybe Supergirl in Season 3 can get back to the Main 5 of Supergirl, Alex,MM, Winn and James.

Just a few ideas to throw out there anyway and discuss.

Well, i don't quite agree with you. I remember Wonder Woman having a "thing" with Steve Trevor ... both of them .
Jaime Sommers it was the long love story with Steve Austin and Chris Williams (season 3). Steve Austin with almost every woman that came in.
Hulk ok, it's like a real connection with all his pants that poor guy !

But i don't mind about the relationships, it's what people are doing with it the problem. The new characters are great, even if some aspect of the show has evolve without all the great things that made season 1, i'm curious to watch every week episode because the changes are cool for most of them.

One thing i've learn with the show runners, is that they always have plans (good ones)

seems chyler is speaking up to fans as well here are a couple tweets from her

tweet 1


tweet 2

basically with in 24 hours of each other. I'd say she is a little low key disappointed

Please don't conveniently confuse those who are critical of writing choices on the show with those who spend their time attacking celebrities (for a variety of reasons apparently) on social media.

Please don't conveniently confuse those who are critical of writing choices on the show with those who spend their time attacking celebrities (for a variety of reasons apparently) on social media.

Hi, Lindy. Please explain further so we can fully understand your concerns.

I don't think the admin and many of us in this thread are concerned with people being critical of writing choices. I believe what the concern is, we've seen a huge spike in fandoms venomously attacking others who disagree with them, fandoms venomously making fun of other fans not in their "group," as well as us seeing a huge spike in tweets and comments throughout social media that are just plain coarse and vulgar. And thus, we've been seeing a major split widening in the Supergirl fanbase, which has been disheartening to witness, especially since the Supergirl fanbase use to be very inclusive, welcoming, and "one team" oriented.

Please don't conveniently confuse those who are critical of writing choices on the show with those who spend their time attacking celebrities (for a variety of reasons apparently) on social media.

If you are speaking in reference to my post, it actually had nothing to do with the complaint of screen time itself, that was simply what I was responding to with my reply tweet to them...it was their reaction, and reaction of others that I was referring to. If people don't like Mon-El and don't like the ST being given to them, that is their opinion, but I think that I and others should be able to give our opinion as well, or simply make a comment as I did should be able to be given without a comment back that in some cases are very rude, very crude, and very unacceptable in a normal conversation between two people. ANY thing that I have spoken of in this thread is the reactionary replies on Twitter that I am seeing from "groups" of people, not because of their opinion, but their reaction to people who do not share their opinion. That's all.