Overall a good episode that I think will be important to the rest of the season.
The really good
-J’onn and M’gann – It’s a special thing when forgiveness helps not only the person forgiving move forward but saves the person being forgiven too. She deserved his forgiveness all the more because she never asked for it. I loved that J’onn needed his “daughters” Kara and Alex with him as he faced an emotional situation.
-That Mon-El told Kara how he feels, it’s her move now. I do hope we get a sister talk about this after Kara thinks things over for a bit. It’s not like Winn where she knew she didn’t like him and it’s not like James where I think last season she liked him more than he liked her. She likes Mon-El and I really hope his secret comes out before she makes her move or she’s going to get hurt.

The Good
-Livewire being the victim instead of the villain and working with Supergirl was a nice twist. Kara is learning that the superhero business like life isn’t black and white. Livewire is a good nemesis for Supergirl because they understand each other’s strengths and weaknesses.
-Alex and Maggie were cute, I guess Maggie’s just hanging out at the DEO whenever she wants now. Alex is right vegan ice cream is disgusting.

What they’re going to have to work on the rest of the season.
So the only person who wasn’t keeping a secret (ether about Guardian or whatever Mon-El is hiding) from Kara was J’onn and that’s hurt her. Someone brought up a good point I wonder what Clark would think about Guardian. I was hopping Supergirl/James/Winn would come to a compromise and I think they will but they’re not ready for that yet. J’onn should have put Winn on probation, people could have gotten hurt because Winn kept important information from the DEO. I find it interesting that J’onn didn’t try to make Winn stop helping James.
Kara is basically more alone than she ever has been since she became Supergirl. Winn’s deception will cut deep. He purposely designed that suit to deceive her, not sure if she’s put that one together yet. Winn may be unconsciously distancing himself from Kara because of her developing relationship with Mon-El. What she said about James and Winn getting killed is true but she could have used a better argument. It did seem she was implying that a hero needs superpowers and in that she was wrong. That being said I don’t want her to be the one to apologize. I am going to play the women apologize too much for speaking their minds card on that one and I won’t apologize for that. Let’s not forget Alex knowing about Winn and James and choosing to keep that from her sister, I hope we hear a good explanation on that one. Everyone including Alex and Maggie owes Kara an apology for keeping Guardian a secret from her before she can fully trust them again.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out and I am going to trust the producers have a plan.

J’onn should have put Winn on probation, people could have gotten hurt because Winn kept important information from the DEO. I find it interesting that J’onn didn’t try to make Winn stop helping James.
Kara is basically more alone than she ever has been since she became Supergirl.

Brierrose,

Good observation. That's exactly the feeling I came away with in the episode. All the more reason I really appreciated Mon el coming to her and coming clean with his feelings for her. And her eyes like 'Comets' and if it was the last thing he saw, he'd be okay with it. How can you not love that. I'll have to rewatch just that scene.

Agreed. That would have been a good move by the writers. Put Winn on Probation. Add some stakes to the game.

But yeah, I just came from this episode feeling a keen sense of isolation for Kara. I'm obviously too invested in this character.

I really need some J'onn, Kara and Alex time next week.

So I am seeing a lot of dislike to James' role this season as Guardian. First of all that is totally ok and it's good to share opinions. There are always going to be plot points that folks don't enjoy. But on that note I thought I would ask you guys a question. What would be a good storyline for James that you would enjoy? The character is well within canon and has had plenty of history with Supergirl. Is there a plot line you would enjoy seeing?

They were absolutely right to make James 'The Guardian'. But they made him the wrong kind of Guardian.

I think a majority of people don't like the Guadian arc here and other places, is because there's an intuitive knowing that the story just doesn't 'feel' right. Because James, the character, has not EARNED his accolades, the way Kara had to. She made mistakes, ripped up a tanker, caused an oil spill, was reviled at one point. Kids threw their super girl costume in the trash. She had to win back the City's trust.

She gives of herself to protect even her enemies. She gave the ultimate sacrifice to save the entire planet without asking for anything back other than her friends go on and have a good life. She EARNED it.

James on the other hand gets handed a company. From being a photo journalist? An art editor? Who aren't typically writers. Kara probably know how CatCo was run by being Cat's assistants for 3 years. Not saying she should be mind you, not nearly.

He practically bullies Winn into helping him and they are instant Heroes. He keeps calling HIMSELF a hero, though he's a Vigilante. You could argue that Supergirl is too, a vigilante, but in her case, she is asked by the Police Dept to help. They've practically deputized her.

The Guardian is written to make no mistakes. Just Boom, the Guardian is a hero without a journey to becoming a hero. It just feels 'false' and the audience know this intuitively.

HOW JAMES could have worked, and worked very well? The writers were handed James' story on a plate back in season one. 'Human for a Day'. That episode should have been the beginning of his story. The photograph he loved so much that he had it framed for Kara? The moment he drew so much inspiration from, and easily Brooks' best work on the entire series. That moment ended in a really heartfelt scene between he Kara and shared something meaningful and private with her.

That moment when Kara became the truest hero without powers, is when James could have realized just how important being a HUMAN hero is, and how he, without powers could be a hero too. That doesn't mean getting into a costume. James could have been written as a man of quiet strength and wisdom, there to guide the young budding hero to something even greater than she she even knew. After all, hanging out with Clark all those years must have taught him some wisdom.

He should have been 'The Guardian', archetype in this story. In fact I thought he was, until he became only the love interest.

As for how James could have fit in as a useful guardian archetype character. He could be expanded his fighting skills 'on screen' like their 'rocky' scene from S1 with Kara. He could have trained with Kara to become a stronger fighter. He could have been her confidante and began writing articles, then in S2 he would have been well positioned to encourage Kara's path as an investigative reporter instead of this ridiculous CEO rubbish. They could have been partners in journalism. She of the pen, he with his camera. All the while watching her back, since Kara has a tendency to disregard her own safety. And above all, James could have been instrumental in helping Kara and Alex find Jeremiah and Cadmus. You know that non story, story. Does any one even care where the poor bloke is? And off course there would be conflict between on the way. Kara is a bit of a hothead.

All that would have fit in with where Cadmus left off from S1, made real use of James at CatCo and an instrumental part of the Hero's life and journey. And we would all love him for it. After all, every General should have his Marcus Aurelius. Or every Queen should have her Francis Walsingham.

That was likely a much longer answer than you expected. Sorry I got carried away!

I'm not dissing the show at all. I'm very supportive of it, and as comic book shows aren't normally my thing, it's a surprise to me that I like it. I followed Melissa here from Whiplash and Glee, and plan on supporting the show until the end. Even if I have to FF some of it :P Plus I really LOVE most of these actors.

One of the best episodes of the the season for me due to the fact it felt more like Supergirl from last season--Scooby gang being all back together, Alex and Hank one-on-one interaction, James and Kara.

The writing was smooooth.

Mon-El just....fits. And, I'm still loving not totally knowing Kara's feelings. My bet, she has feelings, but feels inner conflict--thinking she can't have it all. Remember what she told Hank last season, "I wasn't sent here to fall in love (with a human), have children...."

I just LOVE how Alex KNOWS her sister so well. In fact, it even felt like Chyler knowing Melissa.

The visuals were spot on. The training session with Mon-El? Great with Kara's mid air spin and Mon-El's leap. Looked legit.

And, really liked the interplay between Kara and Livewire. Felt like good character/story development.

But other than all that, everything Fedguy wrote sums it up for me for the season, "Comparing Supergirl to the Flash raised an interesting point. Supergirl is my favourite show on TV right now for many good reasons, but if I was to be rational, The Flash is likely narratively structured better at least so far.

Supergirl has too many arcs for difference characters and devotes too much time to them compared to the other shows. Not necessarily a bad thing but when one of those arcs is as unenjoyable as Guardian it has an impact on the fun of each episode.

James feels like he has equal weight to Kara this Season, which shouldn't be right. The show isn't called Supergirl and Guardian. The Flash's support team understands enough that each should help to their capacity. Cisco and Caitlin are definitely heroes, but they don't suit up fighting crime in the streets. Before Wally got powers, he expressed his heroism in an appropriate capacity, driving his car to help Barry and others. Never once has he received the delusion to ask for a suit from Cisco and fight villains in secret.

Meanwhile, amidst Alex deciding to hang with Maggie, give up, hang with Maggie, give up (Sanvers has been pretty good so far but at times it's distracting), Jame's childish stunts and newer constantly generated social conflicts between the previously cohesive Team Supergirl, some of the most important aspects of the season, namely the fact that CADMUS has Jeremiah, has been sidelined. While The Flash is racing to stop Savitar from killing Iris, Arrow attempts to investigate Prometheus, the Legends defend time and find the Spear of Destiny, I can't find a way to finish this sentence with a description of what Supergirl is doing. It seems to be a constant stream of villains of the week."

Ink Slinger some nice points there. Can't quote your whole thing so I'll just say some thoughts. Basically I loved your take on this. Below might sound a bit ranty, and does contain some criticism of aspects the show. I'd like to declare before hand I LOVE THIS SHOW, and this show means more to me than some of you can imagine if you'd read a post I made long ago.

Comparing Supergirl to the Flash raised an interesting point. Supergirl is my favourite show on TV right now for many good reasons, but if I was to be rational, The Flash is likely narratively structured better at least so far.

Supergirl has too many arcs for difference characters and devotes too much time to them compared to the other shows. Not necessarily a bad thing but when one of those arcs is as unenjoyable as Guardian it has an impact on the fun of each episode.

James feels like he has equal weight to Kara this Season, which shouldn't be right. The show isn't called Supergirl and Guardian. The Flash's support team understands enough that each should help to their capacity. Cisco and Caitlin are definitely heroes, but they don't suit up fighting crime in the streets. Before Wally got powers, he expressed his heroism in an appropriate capacity, driving his car to help Barry and others. Never once has he received the delusion to ask for a suit from Cisco and fight villains in secret.

Meanwhile, amidst Alex deciding to hang with Maggie, give up, hang with Maggie, give up (Sanvers has been pretty good so far but at times it's distracting), Jame's childish stunts and newer constantly generated social conflicts between the previously cohesive Team Supergirl, some of the most important aspects of the season, namely the fact that CADMUS has Jeremiah, has been sidelined. While The Flash is racing to stop Savitar from killing Iris, Arrow attempts to investigate Prometheus, the Legends defend time and find the Spear of Destiny, I can't find a way to finish this sentence with a description of what Supergirl is doing. It seems to be a constant stream of villains of the week.

So I am seeing a lot of dislike to James' role this season as Guardian. First of all that is totally ok and it's good to share opinions. There are always going to be plot points that folks don't enjoy. But on that note I thought I would ask you guys a question. What would be a good storyline for James that you would enjoy? The character is well within canon and has had plenty of history with Supergirl. Is there a plot line you would enjoy seeing?

with his camera as a photographer he could have helped her learn the ropes of being an investigative reporter, they could get into trouble together here and there.

"Man! I miss the 'feeling' of last season!!" Remember in July/August when they kept getting asked, "How has the move to the CW changed the feeling of the show," they would all say not at all, it all still feels like it did before? Lies... Crack smoking... False. Lol

... But the special spark is dying. Last night, I was able to see some flickerings of season 1...and I had forgotten how good it felt to see it.

There is definitely a different feel to Season 2 and for me that's the strong sense of Family/Close friendship that helped make Season 1 so special which IMHO doesn't seem to be there as much so far in Season 2.

That strong family theme ran throughout Season 1 and essentially open and closed the season beginning with Kara saying goodbye to her Krypton family and then meeting her Earth family and finishing with that sweet scene in 'Better Angels' where Kara raised a toast to "Family, love bonds us all".

In Season 1 we had the Father/Daughter relationship of J'onn, Alex & Kara, the sister bond of Alex & Kara and the close friendship of Kara,James & Winn working together @ Catco. Most of that seems to have gone by the wayside in Season 2 as everyone has gone in their different directions which is probably good for character development but not at the expense of that enjoyable family closeness. Kara and Winn hardly talk to each other now and their friendship was one of the many enjoyable parts of Season 1.

I had similar feelings to you evrafter during this episode when watching David's and Chyler's scenes together which were fantastic and I thought to myself I've hardly seen this in Season 2. They had some awesome scenes in Season 1 like when MM revealed himself to Alex in 'Human for a Day' and when Alex was trying to comfort J'onn in 'Strange Visitor from Another Planet'.


evrafter "Oh... And for the love of all things holy... Alex... Please show concern for your father. And... Pretty sure Eliza would ACTUALLY be hounding the DEO, Alex, and Kara to be out there actively looking for Jeremiah and not showing more concern for her girls' love lives."

Unfortunately it doesn't appear Eliza knows that Kara has seen Jeremiah alive, a short scene in 'Medusa' of Kara and Alex telling her would've been nice. I just hope they haven't forgotten about that story-line and that it plays a major part at the end of the season (between Episodes 17 and 22), I still wish for a happy Danvers family reunion this season.

Yeah about saving Jeremiah......

After Barry learned Savitar is going to kill Iris, that's all that's on his mind right now. After they learned Jeremiah is in mortal danger.........Kara and Alex.....basically so far don't seem like they care

Coming late just to say a few things:
a. I wish Kara wasn't left alone at the end of the episode. I felt really sad for her.
b. I think when Kara told James that she cannot be a hero because he is human, she didn't mean in terms of the actual things that make a hero--kindness, compassion, and a willingness to put others before oneself. I think she meant that he is not invulnerable. And considering that she has lost her entire planet, I think it is a normal reaction for her to have.
I mean come on; she has lost so much; isn't it only natural that she would fear losing more when she hears her closest friends are putting themselves in danger? I know some people might think that it was Kara being condescending; but I think it was Kara being too fearful. And also, she does say it at the end: that for the record, Winn and James were heroes to her way before all this.
(By the way, I am always surprised that Kara doesn't bring that same logic of "humans can get hurt" to Alex though. I mean, she kind of takes it for granted that Alex can constantly put herself in danger.)
The weird thing is that Winn and James completely disregarded her; her feelings... They don't care about that any more. Alex did... (earlier when she asked them to reveal their secret) but well, we didn't have a scene on that. More than any episode this season, this one deserved an Alex-Kara interaction where Kara gets to rant and be emotional and have someone take care of her. I do hope in a couple of episodes, Alex also pays some consideration to Kara. I don't want her to drop Maggie or her dating life; I just want it to be balanced.
c. I agree with what Lindy said on the comments section of the episode that Mon El is egging James on. That comment about "Desk job" and being "handsome"... that definitely was a jab. Oh, I don't think he is bad or evil. I sort of like him when his only motivation is not getting Kara to fall for him. But, I don't think he is as great as a lot of people think he is. He is definitely no Kara or Clark (or Alex or J'onn).

However....
I really loved how Kara talked Livewire into fighting with her; that is one of the reasons why I love Kara. That owing to her idealism, she can talk people into doing great things.

And... I really loved the J'onn-Alex and J'onn-Alex-Kara scenes. They were wonderful. I liked the M'gann scenes too but would love some scenes between M'gann, Alex and Kara.

About the superhero thing:
What inkslinger said of course...
But, I'd also like to add that the show had potential to show that there can be many ways of being a hero: not everyone has to be a physically violent, crime-fighting person (someone said that on the main episode page; and I have seen this on tumblr too, I think).

Aren't reporters who bring truth to people while putting their lives on the line heroes? Aren't doctors who stay for hours in the operating room to save someone's life heroes?

However, they are veering away from that what with James deciding that heroism is defined by putting on a suit and knocking out people, Winn agreeing and Kara pushing Mon El to do that.
With Mon El, I'd have so loved a character who is just in it for himself but would risk a lot, including pain and death, for his friends rather than someone who is Kara-like. We need just one Kara (and one J'onn. And one Alex. A diversity of characters would be so much better than everyone being a superhero clone.)

Also, hated Winn keeping secrets from Kara. What is with that?

I think people sometimes forget that Mon-El is an alien. And not just from another planet, but also from a planet that has vastly different values from the general population of Earth and, more importantly, vastly different from those values that were inculcated into Kara on Krypton.

I don’t think Mon-El is as bad a guy as as some want to make him out to be. He’s an alien that, if everything we’ve been told of Daxam is true, was raised from the get go to never care about anything else but his own self-interests and personal pleasure. So it’s not like he was raised with the story of The Good Samaritan on his bedside table.

Imagine, a planet full of hedonists, living only for their personal pleasure and that’s the society and cultural values Mon-El was raised with. That he struggles with running headlong into danger simply because others need his help is not surprising. Indeed, people raised with better values in real life are quick to walk by strangers in the streets who are in need (and actually, Mon-El was previously captured by Cadmus because he had stopped to do just that - try and help a total stranger that was huddled on the street corner - samaritan point awarded to Mon-El). So had the writers made Mon-El of planet Daxam, the biggest planet of hedonists ever, instantly a paragon of virtue I would’ve called bull-pucky. That wouldn’t have been believable by any stretch and not worth watching. So as it is, I think Mon-El's slow transformation thus far is believable and interesting, particularly the struggle between Kara and Mon-El to understand each other. And I, like Kara, can see the potential in him to do a lot of good and to live up to his comic book superhero counterpart.

If Mon-El were intrinsically bad he would’ve never bothered to show up to fight Parasite when Kara was out for the count. Yes, Alex had to verbally smack him upside the head to get him to understand - because again, Mon-El wasn’t raised with even remotely the same ethics - but he got the message and went and stood up to Parasite because others needed to be protected and not because he thought it would score him points with Kara. And when captured by Cadmus, the reason he stayed after escaping was because Lillian Luthor threatened to hurt faux-J’onn. If Mon-El was so darn selfish he would’ve kept right on running out of Cadmus’ compound and towards freedom, but he didn’t.

I’m not claiming Mon-El’s the picture of self-sacrifice, but I’m saying he’s learning that he can be more than he was raised to be. In essence, Mon-El is fighting the old battle of nurture versus nature and Mon-El’s potential transformation into a genuine hero on this series will depend on which side of that argument wins in the end. So, in my opinion, to say that Mon-El only wants to be a superhero to get into Kara’s pants is incredibly reductive and generally misses the point of his character arc. Clearly, he has feelings for Kara, but his actions also point to an inner struggle to be more than just another self-serving hedonist from planet Daxam.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think anyone deserves Kara because Kara’s not a door prize that someone wins at a fair. Kara gets to decide who her friends are and who to become romantically involved with (well, the writers will choose for her character, but you catch my drift). Whether she chooses to become involved with Mon-El or not is firmly her choice, particularly after this episode, that left that ball entirely in her court. But the writers have put this all on a slow burn partly because I think they recognize that until Mon-El can be considered Kara’s equal in terms of overall personal values and in the desire to work for the common good then it will never be a believable pairing. I’m not saying they will always agree on everything (and I hope they never do because their back and forth is highly entertaining) but they do need to be on the same page on the big issues for a romantic relationship between them (if that's where this ends up) to even be remotely believable.

certainly not my favorite episode.

- Livewire was fine, but I would have liked a bit more time for her instead of the knock offs. Though nice to see Jessi Graff get some time on screen. great quotable, "I love how little boys think they can be superheroes woman who is an actual superhero is here"

- Sanvers had small parts but cute. does Kara know Maggie knows?

- Might be the first episode of supergirl I really just didnt like Winn. Turned his back on Supergirl? for real?

- J'onn and M'gann was such a powerful and wonderful part of this episode, a true saving grace of the episode.

- Mon-El; I think Kara was a little harsh towards him. And considering she didnt explain what a phone was before getting him a job at catco I think I could but into she didnt explain things well to him except to listen to me. Which he did fail at so there is that....

- action was on point, some really good scenes.

- James; where do I begin. he is a guy that interviews well but his wordds dont match his actions or his attitude. They seriously had better not have Guardian save supergirls ass at some point to prove a point that he can be a hero too. I mean seriously they cant write that in, I mean she is f'n supergirl does she need a guy to save her?

As I give this a re-watch I might appreciate it more, but I felt this was the weakest episode of season 2.

So I am seeing a lot of dislike to James' role this season as Guardian. First of all that is totally ok and it's good to share opinions. There are always going to be plot points that folks don't enjoy. But on that note I thought I would ask you guys a question. What would be a good storyline for James that you would enjoy? The character is well within canon and has had plenty of history with Supergirl. Is there a plot line you would enjoy seeing?

with his camera as a photographer he could have helped her learn the ropes of being an investigative reporter, they could get into trouble together here and there.

Precisely my friend! As opposed to this faux Arrow Mk.II minus 5 years in hell and League training.

to be 100% fair, if they wrote him a lot more humble in it all I could get behind guardian, but he has been so smug and selfish from the start of it. People lie because they know deep down what they are doing is wrong. When James was speaking with Kara in the catco office, did he seem like someone humbly asking for understanding or someone looking to rub her face in the idea? Then when the topic of Mon-El came up he backed off? why?

at the end of it Kara was the fandom in this episode. to quote a new twitter friend,
1. How the heck is James a superhero/he's gonna get himself killed
2. Why was everyone lying to her about Guardian
3. She knows Mon El doesn't have inborn heroics
4. She says that he can change
5. She knew Mon El's real motives.

Also from Leslie:
1. Where's the girl power
2. Why do boys think they can do the work of a female super hero

I reckon it went downhill when he was written to be a romantic interest.

Fedguy,

THIS

I miss the FAMILY dynamic of them working together, which has not been happening for a while.

Agree with you on that Ink Slinger, Kara,James and Winn working together at Catco was a special part of Season 1 for me and it wasn't too nice to see their fractured friendship at the end of this episode, hopefully they can be all close friends again.

2 out of 2 to start the 2nd part of the season for me, this episode was worth a second viewing almost immediately after the first, I got quite a lot out of it.

Highlights
- The acting pairs were quite excellent in this episode, thoroughly enjoyed the scenes between David and Chyler, David and Sharon, Melissa and Mehcad, Melissa and Brit, Melissa and Chris.
- Kudos to the Encore VFX team, some more awesome scenes on Mars and the Livewire electricity effects are totally stunning.
- Blake Neely's music was particularly good in this episode especially for the scenes in prison.
- Brit Morgan, she must love playing this role as she brings a top-notch performance each time, fantastic work Brit, happy that we will most likely see her again.

Bring on the Martians next week.

I enjoyed this episode though I wish there had been more Brit Morgan in it. Regardless of how it goes, I truly enjoy the banter between Mon-El and Kara. However, though I think in general, the show has improved in overall quality, it has been at the cost of its soul. It's missing last year's spark and that goes beyond "sisters night." Look at Falling again and the current episodes and you will note the difference.

What do they need to fix? I am not fully sure. A return of "sisters night" would be good. A stronger focus on Kara and spending more time with her would be great. A good arc to cover the season that is consistent throughout. I thought this year would focus on Cadmus and Kara's development as a reporter. Both have been spotty and I would think Cadmus and Jeremiah at least would be a focus for both Kara and Alex.

I think the of the two arcs were good ideas poorly executed. I want to see a greater consistency in the overall seasonal plot.

Then there's Guardian. Last night, I saw another example of "cape envy." Mehcad is an actor who deserves a better roles. They don't seem to offer one. He could be Kara's hard charging journalism mentor. If not, perhaps kill him off as the hero he wants to be: death as the guardian.

Overall in terms of spirit, we need to recapture that for Season 3. Season 2, again, is an improvement in some ways, but is missing the key ingredient of Season 1.

Argo

I mostly agree but I reckon Mon-El is genuine about wanting to be a hero. He fought Parasite long before he had any chance/friendship with Kara and he wanted to stay a hero after Kara seemingly rebuffed him. He's not a paragon but he's definitely a good guy.

Evrafter, hang in there... I think even the cast can have their ups and downs (everyone is human after all and could have their personal views), but am pretty sure they would bring their best/kindliest/friendliest selves to the show; they have been doing that so far.

The writers and show runners though... They do need to go and watch last season... and perhaps read a few forum posts.

*stands for applause*

Oh, and loved your review of the episode. Spot on.

Favorite line of the night goes to Kara: (and I'm paraphrasing) "For the record, you were heroes to me long before all of this."

I almost forgot about a moment in the episode that made me laugh and facepalm:

Towards the end of the episode when Kara's asking Winn and James if they could go back to being superfriends, and James tells her something like he "doesn't just want to be the guy at the office anymore". Winn's reasoning, though, of why he didn't want to go back to just being Superfriends was thus:

Winn: "Ya, I don't wanna just be stuck behind a computer."

Ummm....Winn, you do know that's literally what you do as part of Team Guardian, right? You sit. Behind. A computer! *facepalm*

The mistake made by Mon-El was not to get the officers totally out of the building.

I like to call it.... "Take the high heels off and run idiot" syndrome.