Sneak Peek 4 which is an extension of Sneak Peek 2

Hank's part was done really well. Otherwise though...

Normally I would watch every episode of the Arrowverse shows as they come out and then see it again with my brother. I hesistate about this one, mainly because it's so hard to sit through the James parts. Especially when he put down Mon-El, and oh lord....when he said to Kara "you can try."

At that moment I temporarily hoped Kara would go off character and fight him. I dislike this character more than Arrow's Wild Dog.

A while ago Cisco was pretty salty at Barry on the Flash. Now Cisco was likeable and had a good reason, but it was still a pain to watch. Now James isn't likeable normally has no good reason. So....

So I am seeing a lot of dislike to James' role this season as Guardian. First of all that is totally ok and it's good to share opinions. There are always going to be plot points that folks don't enjoy. But on that note I thought I would ask you guys a question. What would be a good storyline for James that you would enjoy? The character is well within canon and has had plenty of history with Supergirl. Is there a plot line you would enjoy seeing?

So I am seeing a lot of dislike to James' role this season as Guardian. First of all that is totally ok and it's good to share opinions. There are always going to be plot points that folks don't enjoy. But on that note I thought I would ask you guys a question. What would be a good storyline for James that you would enjoy? The character is well within canon and has had plenty of history with Supergirl. Is there a plot line you would enjoy seeing?

with his camera as a photographer he could have helped her learn the ropes of being an investigative reporter, they could get into trouble together here and there.

Precisely my friend! As opposed to this faux Arrow Mk.II minus 5 years in hell and League training.

"Why do boys think they can do the work of a female super hero"

Hoping you didn't mean that Mon-El and James are not as good as Kara based on that reason. They aren't as good as she is but surely not because of that.

no its more a "pile on". I mean even Livewire sees it

They both got different motives and I reckon Mon-El is fine. But yeah I see some of what you're saying

Vote 04/10
Worst episode I've watched of Supergirl

after a re-watch I did a bit more thinking and wanted to add this, I know it seems like piling on.

during that first action sequence they showcased the power levels of all 3; Supergirl, Mon-el, and Guardian. Supergirl is getting hit over and over again with these electric bolts and is essentially fine. Mon-El is able to handle the bolts albeit with the use a make shift sheild (van door). Guardian even with his shield up is knocked down for the count from just 1 bolt.

as for Mon-El/James motives; Mon-El wants to get in Kara's pants, pure and simple. James feels left behind by all his superhero friends and wants to show especially to Kara that he is on the same level as her, but he never will be. The will to be a superhero is a nice start, but you need more. Winn's toys elevate James' reach but think how superheroic Iron Man is without his suit.

Batman or even Green Arrow for that matter wouldnt have allowed that cop to be hit by the bolt because both Batman and Green Arrow dedicate all of their time to be physically and mentally prepared for these situations. James treats it like a hobby he does at night.

and I am done crapping on James, I hope they fix him.

Upon rumination, a couple of more things.

I found myself on James side of things when he and Kara talked. It reminded of me of when she so unexpectedly castigated Alex for going off on her own...a very Kara thing to do, btw. I also thought she was dismissive and condescending. But then James has been written in a less that favorable light lately too. Could it be this isn't poor writing but intentional to the story? We'll wait and see. Was Kara beginning to see that James had more to his "I wanna be a hero" desires than Mon El did? Again, we'll see. I find myself unconvinced that the romance between Kara and James is done. I dunno.

One more observation about Mon El...if you have to be trained to care about other people you don't deserve Kara Danvers, or so it seems to me.

I almost forgot about a moment in the episode that made me laugh and facepalm:

Towards the end of the episode when Kara's asking Winn and James if they could go back to being superfriends, and James tells her something like he "doesn't just want to be the guy at the office anymore". Winn's reasoning, though, of why he didn't want to go back to just being Superfriends was thus:

Winn: "Ya, I don't wanna just be stuck behind a computer."

Ummm....Winn, you do know that's literally what you do as part of Team Guardian, right? You sit. Behind. A computer! *facepalm*

I was particularly bummed he decided to side with James. I always mostly liked Winn.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think anyone deserves Kara because Kara’s not a door prize that someone wins at a fair.

Love is a gift freely given; not a reward or a prize you deserve. --Me (although, other people may have said it too).

But, for a relationship to work and be sustainable without causing emotional harm to either of the relationshippee, the emotional stakeholders must be on equal footing. Equal respect. Equivalent or compatable values. Equivalent power and so on.

Love does not equal a successful relationship.

I do agree with you on Mon El that he is a product of his times and people need to account for that. The difficulty some people may have in accounting for that is the fact that he wears the garb of a white straight male who also has quite a lot of money.

I don't agree that he has to be Kara's level of self-sacrificing to be in an equal relationship--be it friendship or something else--with her.

And while I don't know the history of Daxam, I find it difficult to believe that every person in that planet is a hedonistic person, or that that is its one true value. A planet or a community cannot flourish or sustain like that. There needs to be a sense of community, a willingness to work for the good of the planet rather than just for individuals. The fact that the planet never devolved into chaos and utter destruction is proof enough that common human values of "working together" and caring for others were there, and was probably thought of highly (Romans had that; and Greeks). In fact, his willingness to help J'onn and Kara can be taken in that light. To fight for his own, which he would have learned. But, that is philosophy and cultural evolution for you. I don't know if DC or the writers ever take that into account.

And... while it is true that theoretically, you can cut some slack for a person's upbringing, in real-life (and people learn from fiction for that), a person's mistake could still be very costly; if someone is killed, forgiving Mon El will not bring that person back. neither will upbraiding him; but you can make the call of not having him in your team until you are sure of his loyalties and priorities.

As for Kara's reaction, I agree that it was in character. She reacted the same way when Alex first told her that she worked for the DEO. I don't agree that she considers humans less for that. Which is why I don't think it was condescending (as in she thinks less of humans in general or James in particular because of their physical weakness). She just needs to learn that she cannot make people's choices for them and need to accept their right to put themselves in danger. Oh and near invulnerability shouldn't be a requirement there (after all, she does consistently put herself in danger where she could actually get killed too).

If the writers mean to put Kara wholly in the wrong and James wholly in the right, then that would be an injustice to Kara's character. And I am pretty sure there would be outcries. But, I think that is what a lot of people (including myself) fear.

Oh! I'd like to add that, as many in tumblr pointed out, Kara saying that "she doesn't have to work alone" but has "Mon El" to help her and support her was out of character.

She has DEO and Alex and J'onn. Did she forget that? They have always been her backup. She has rarely been alone in her fights.

I don't agree that he has to be Kara's level of self-sacrificing to be in an equal relationship--be it friendship or something else--with her.

Well, I wasn’t trying to say Mon-El had to be at Kara’s level of self-sacrifice to be in an equal relationship. If that’s what you took away from my post that’s my bad. I should have been more clear.

I think they should have overall compatible or common values, but when I wrote that they should be on the "same page", I mean in understanding each others motivations. If Kara wants to throw herself into the Sun to save the planet, I’m not saying Mon-El should be just as willing to do the same. But Mon-El needs to understand why Kara would be willing to do that and Kara should get that not everyone, even if they have amazing superpowers similar to hers, is quite that altruistic.

And while I don't know the history of Daxam, I find it difficult to believe that every person in that planet is a hedonistic person, or that that is its one true value.

Yes, that’s why I qualified my remarks with “If everything we’ve been told of Daxam is true”. I realize I’m taking the show’s description of Daxam and it’s people at face value, but I think it’s helpful to put Mon-El into context because it makes it more understandable as to why he just can’t flip a switch and suddenly be the paragon of moral virtue and is instead slow on the uptake.

And... while it is true that theoretically, you can cut some slack for a person's upbringing, in real-life (and people learn from fiction for that), a person's mistake could still be very costly; if someone is killed, forgiving Mon El will not bring that person back. neither will upbraiding him; but you can make the call of not having him in your team until you are sure of his loyalties and priorities.

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment here, but I don’t think Mon-El’s mistake in this episode had anything to do with his “loyalties or priorities”.

Kara and James were fixated on the fact that Mon-El left his position with the cops to save Kara who was fighting 2:1 against the Livewire Wannabes (even though the cops were not in immediate danger at the moment because they were hunkered down behind a van). In this instance, I think Mon-El made a judgement call, but not a mistake. Put Alex or J’onn in Mon-El’s place in that moment and I argue they would’ve done the same thing because, at that moment, the only one in imminent mortal peril was Kara. Mon-El took a calculated risk.

I think Mon-El’s actual mistake came moments later when he was fighting one of the Wannabes and accidentally deflected the lighting towards one of the cops who had tripped while running for the exit. That mistake is exactly the same as what happened when Mon-El was training with Kara and he accidentally deflected a laser bolt at a cardboard cut-out and fried it. But that mistake has nothing to do with Mon-El’s motivations and everything to do with experience and technical readiness. Truth be told, I think Kara should've kept on training Mon-El until there were ZERO cardboard cutout casualties before taking him out into the field, but the plot wants what it wants.

Funnily enough, the fact that Jimmy was utterly fixated on Mon-El’s choice to leave his position with the cops to save Kara, and then threw that in Kara’s face as if it were the "Worst. Thing. Ever." to me is like a big, flashing green sign that says Jimmy’s issue has nothing to do with Mon-El's motivations being less than purely altruistic, and everything to do with jealousy.

If Jimmy were really concerned for the public, he could’ve have easily argued that Mon-El wasn’t ready because he was making technical errors that put people in danger. But no, Jimmy’s all derriere pained that Kara believes Mon-El is capable of being a superhero and partnering with Mon-El, but not so much with Jimmy himself, so Jimmy throws it in Kara’s face that Mon-El’s motivations aren’t as pure as the driven snow. You know, unlike Jimmy’s own motivations which are all 100% selfless.

Oh, Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy. If hypocrisy and jealousy were a currency you’d be banking enough to rival Maxwell Lord.

Oh! I'd like to add that, as many in tumblr pointed out, Kara saying that "she doesn't have to work alone" but has "Mon El" to help her and support her was out of character.

She has DEO and Alex and J'onn. Did she forget that? They have always been her backup. She has rarely been alone in her fights.

I think she made that comment specifically because this was Livewire she was stressing out about, not because she has forgotten that she has the DEO, Alex, and J'onn to help her.

Livewire can kill humans (e.g, Alex and other DEO agents) easily and instantly, and as powerful as J'onn is, I don't think he's impervious to Livewire. So for Kara, having to deal with Livewire who is so deadly and also very willing to kill anyone she comes across, it probably feels like even if Alex, J'onn and the DEO were to be there as tactical support, there's little if anything they can do because Livewire's lightning-throw style of attack isn't one they are quite capable of protecting themselves against.

But having Mon-El as a partner, who seems to be closer to Kara's level of resilience when it comes to Livewire's type of superpower, made Kara feel better because she saw it as having someone there who had the power to help her fight Livewire (and still have a good chance of coming out of it alive) and also as someone that could protect others against Livewire's attacks while she could focus on fighting Livewire herself.

Note that even last time Kara faced Livewire last season she declined help from the DEO (Lucy offered) because Kara told Lucy that Livewire was just too deadly. Kara instead faced Livewire (and Banshee) with Barry/The Flash there to help her.

(Though, I don't know why Kara and the DEO don't just arm themselves with Nerf Super Soakers and take aim at Livewire. But maybe Earth-38 doesn't have water guns. *shrug*)

No, Kara is not a door prize. We know that.. She needs to tell James and Mon El that. Here's hoping something similar is in the dialogue soon. I will be tickled to hear her say it.

TV Fanatic - Supergirl Round Table: Shocking Revelations

TV Fanatic - Supergirl Round Table: Shocking Revelations

Did they even watch the episode.....usually their roundtables are pretty good. This one in reference to the White Martians was like they missed an entire conversation at the end between MGann and Jonn..

Note that even last time Kara faced Livewire last season she declined help from the DEO (Lucy offered) because Kara told Lucy that Livewire was just too deadly. Kara instead faced Livewire (and Banshee) with Barry/The Flash there to help her.

At the time J'onn and Alex were not there. And, I don't think Kara knew Lucy very well; and her ties to the DEO is essentially her ties to Alex and J'onn. So, no, the situation is not the same.

Even if they were, it just means Kara doesn't learn. Because that time with Barry, it was the humans who saved her. Not to mention, as you said, water cannons. *shakes head*

And besides, what categorised the previous season was that Alex, J'onn and Kara strategised. Even when, Kara was the only fighter.

In this episode, if only she had talked it over with J'onn and Alex, either of them would have pointed out that Monel was not ready for the field. (J'onn had Alex train for 2 years before she got out into the field.). No, instead we had two separate storylines: one J'onn's and other Kara and Monel's with Alex taking any spare time she had to bet with Maggie (although, I know at least this time around, she was backing up J'onn).

The two stories didn't seem to have any connection at all; which is very weird when the show is about Supergirl.

Also Alex! She didn't take the time out to talk Livewire out with Kara and discuss how she can be defeated; try to calm her other than say: "Kara, get a grip!", which I actually found rather rude and hurtful. (Alex is one of my favorite characters, but I can't take her side on this; and contrast this to how she reacted when Kara vented about Winn after his confession and her rejection). The show seems to think that once you have romance, you have everything (oh and romance is the point of life); and they trot out everything else just for some big drama (like episode 9) then forget all about it until the next big moment.

The thing is: relationships are as much about the little day-to-day moments as about the big ones. May be more so, because we don't get big moments all that often in our lives. However, this season, most of the little moments have been between Monel and Kara and Alex and Maggie and J'onn and M'gann with some rare Alex-Kara, J'onn-Kara moments thrown in. In a way, it is even racist (or speciest if that is a word) because you are essentially shipping people of the same species and are saying nobody can understand you better than people of your own kind. (I liked that scene last week where Monel and Kara talk about some toy or something; that added to the show.. and it makes sense for Kara and J'onn to need that. I am not saying it doesn't.)

And Winn, has mostly been playing side-kick to James. (I liked Winn-Alex scenes though).

I joked about it in my earlier comment (about Monel being white, straight and male); but, that is essentially folks' (folks who are against him, not those who like him) issue with Monel. I think that is also essentially folks' (the people who do have an issue) issue with Maggie. That both of them take time away from a Kara story; or an Alex-Kara story or a J'onn-Alex-Kara story.

I am not downplaying the importance of romance to people in real life (or in screen life), mind you. But, romance can take seasons. And they can develop in the background while still having the familial/platonic friendships front and centre.

May be the problem is they have so many storylines going together; there is no time to flesh out any one of them. And of course, with romance they are catering to the CW audience.

Note: I know it is weird that I am saying this when I have been trying to defend Alex-Maggie storyline and gay representation (and have signed up to this site for that) so far. And, I don't deny that it has helped a lot of gay people, especially kids. But, well, I am kind of losing hope that the show will return to its season 1 essentials of strong friendships and familial relationships that held up the show; and Kara learning to find her feet as an alien, a woman, a human and a mix of everything.

Well, I wasn’t trying to say Mon-El had to be at Kara’s level of self-sacrifice to be in an equal relationship. If that’s what you took away from my post that’s my bad. I should have been more clear.

This wasn't directed at you TheHolyHandGrenade (nice name! ). I was speaking about comments I have seen elsewhere about Monel. And also, the show's own treatment of his story (basically, the stress on his becoming a hero).

And anyways, I don't think the mistake was essentially Monel's. He has, afterall, no experience. I thought the issue was Kara's and J'onn's and Alex's in letting him take to the field in the first place when he was ill prepared, and when so many lives were in balance.

In fact, the whole operation seems to be ill thought out. Kara never even takes the time out to watch prison footage before dashing out. And yet, she has the time to take Monel out as support.