Not a sneak peek, just some fun.....

Excellent thanks Kelly, I thought about posting the lyrics to that legendary David Bowie song in this thread but didn't think they really fit. I do keep singing that line 'We can be heroes, just for one day' whenever I read this episode title though.

While the Episode title is probably in reference to Mon-El becoming a Superhero I wonder if the EP's titled it as such as a tribute to David Bowie.

Sneak Peek 3

Sneak Peek 4 which is an extension of Sneak Peek 2

They both got different motives and I reckon Mon-El is fine. But yeah I see some of what you're saying

I reckon it went downhill when he was written to be a romantic interest.

Fedguy,

THIS

Yeah about saving Jeremiah......

After Barry learned Savitar is going to kill Iris, that's all that's on his mind right now. After they learned Jeremiah is in mortal danger.........Kara and Alex.....basically so far don't seem like they care

Hank's part was done really well. Otherwise though...

Normally I would watch every episode of the Arrowverse shows as they come out and then see it again with my brother. I hesistate about this one, mainly because it's so hard to sit through the James parts. Especially when he put down Mon-El, and oh lord....when he said to Kara "you can try."

At that moment I temporarily hoped Kara would go off character and fight him. I dislike this character more than Arrow's Wild Dog.

A while ago Cisco was pretty salty at Barry on the Flash. Now Cisco was likeable and had a good reason, but it was still a pain to watch. Now James isn't likeable normally has no good reason. So....

So I am seeing a lot of dislike to James' role this season as Guardian. First of all that is totally ok and it's good to share opinions. There are always going to be plot points that folks don't enjoy. But on that note I thought I would ask you guys a question. What would be a good storyline for James that you would enjoy? The character is well within canon and has had plenty of history with Supergirl. Is there a plot line you would enjoy seeing?

I think people sometimes forget that Mon-El is an alien. And not just from another planet, but also from a planet that has vastly different values from the general population of Earth and, more importantly, vastly different from those values that were inculcated into Kara on Krypton.

I don’t think Mon-El is as bad a guy as as some want to make him out to be. He’s an alien that, if everything we’ve been told of Daxam is true, was raised from the get go to never care about anything else but his own self-interests and personal pleasure. So it’s not like he was raised with the story of The Good Samaritan on his bedside table.

Imagine, a planet full of hedonists, living only for their personal pleasure and that’s the society and cultural values Mon-El was raised with. That he struggles with running headlong into danger simply because others need his help is not surprising. Indeed, people raised with better values in real life are quick to walk by strangers in the streets who are in need (and actually, Mon-El was previously captured by Cadmus because he had stopped to do just that - try and help a total stranger that was huddled on the street corner - samaritan point awarded to Mon-El). So had the writers made Mon-El of planet Daxam, the biggest planet of hedonists ever, instantly a paragon of virtue I would’ve called bull-pucky. That wouldn’t have been believable by any stretch and not worth watching. So as it is, I think Mon-El's slow transformation thus far is believable and interesting, particularly the struggle between Kara and Mon-El to understand each other. And I, like Kara, can see the potential in him to do a lot of good and to live up to his comic book superhero counterpart.

If Mon-El were intrinsically bad he would’ve never bothered to show up to fight Parasite when Kara was out for the count. Yes, Alex had to verbally smack him upside the head to get him to understand - because again, Mon-El wasn’t raised with even remotely the same ethics - but he got the message and went and stood up to Parasite because others needed to be protected and not because he thought it would score him points with Kara. And when captured by Cadmus, the reason he stayed after escaping was because Lillian Luthor threatened to hurt faux-J’onn. If Mon-El was so darn selfish he would’ve kept right on running out of Cadmus’ compound and towards freedom, but he didn’t.

I’m not claiming Mon-El’s the picture of self-sacrifice, but I’m saying he’s learning that he can be more than he was raised to be. In essence, Mon-El is fighting the old battle of nurture versus nature and Mon-El’s potential transformation into a genuine hero on this series will depend on which side of that argument wins in the end. So, in my opinion, to say that Mon-El only wants to be a superhero to get into Kara’s pants is incredibly reductive and generally misses the point of his character arc. Clearly, he has feelings for Kara, but his actions also point to an inner struggle to be more than just another self-serving hedonist from planet Daxam.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think anyone deserves Kara because Kara’s not a door prize that someone wins at a fair. Kara gets to decide who her friends are and who to become romantically involved with (well, the writers will choose for her character, but you catch my drift). Whether she chooses to become involved with Mon-El or not is firmly her choice, particularly after this episode, that left that ball entirely in her court. But the writers have put this all on a slow burn partly because I think they recognize that until Mon-El can be considered Kara’s equal in terms of overall personal values and in the desire to work for the common good then it will never be a believable pairing. I’m not saying they will always agree on everything (and I hope they never do because their back and forth is highly entertaining) but they do need to be on the same page on the big issues for a romantic relationship between them (if that's where this ends up) to even be remotely believable.

I don't agree that he has to be Kara's level of self-sacrificing to be in an equal relationship--be it friendship or something else--with her.

Well, I wasn’t trying to say Mon-El had to be at Kara’s level of self-sacrifice to be in an equal relationship. If that’s what you took away from my post that’s my bad. I should have been more clear.

I think they should have overall compatible or common values, but when I wrote that they should be on the "same page", I mean in understanding each others motivations. If Kara wants to throw herself into the Sun to save the planet, I’m not saying Mon-El should be just as willing to do the same. But Mon-El needs to understand why Kara would be willing to do that and Kara should get that not everyone, even if they have amazing superpowers similar to hers, is quite that altruistic.

And while I don't know the history of Daxam, I find it difficult to believe that every person in that planet is a hedonistic person, or that that is its one true value.

Yes, that’s why I qualified my remarks with “If everything we’ve been told of Daxam is true”. I realize I’m taking the show’s description of Daxam and it’s people at face value, but I think it’s helpful to put Mon-El into context because it makes it more understandable as to why he just can’t flip a switch and suddenly be the paragon of moral virtue and is instead slow on the uptake.

And... while it is true that theoretically, you can cut some slack for a person's upbringing, in real-life (and people learn from fiction for that), a person's mistake could still be very costly; if someone is killed, forgiving Mon El will not bring that person back. neither will upbraiding him; but you can make the call of not having him in your team until you are sure of his loyalties and priorities.

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment here, but I don’t think Mon-El’s mistake in this episode had anything to do with his “loyalties or priorities”.

Kara and James were fixated on the fact that Mon-El left his position with the cops to save Kara who was fighting 2:1 against the Livewire Wannabes (even though the cops were not in immediate danger at the moment because they were hunkered down behind a van). In this instance, I think Mon-El made a judgement call, but not a mistake. Put Alex or J’onn in Mon-El’s place in that moment and I argue they would’ve done the same thing because, at that moment, the only one in imminent mortal peril was Kara. Mon-El took a calculated risk.

I think Mon-El’s actual mistake came moments later when he was fighting one of the Wannabes and accidentally deflected the lighting towards one of the cops who had tripped while running for the exit. That mistake is exactly the same as what happened when Mon-El was training with Kara and he accidentally deflected a laser bolt at a cardboard cut-out and fried it. But that mistake has nothing to do with Mon-El’s motivations and everything to do with experience and technical readiness. Truth be told, I think Kara should've kept on training Mon-El until there were ZERO cardboard cutout casualties before taking him out into the field, but the plot wants what it wants.

Funnily enough, the fact that Jimmy was utterly fixated on Mon-El’s choice to leave his position with the cops to save Kara, and then threw that in Kara’s face as if it were the "Worst. Thing. Ever." to me is like a big, flashing green sign that says Jimmy’s issue has nothing to do with Mon-El's motivations being less than purely altruistic, and everything to do with jealousy.

If Jimmy were really concerned for the public, he could’ve have easily argued that Mon-El wasn’t ready because he was making technical errors that put people in danger. But no, Jimmy’s all derriere pained that Kara believes Mon-El is capable of being a superhero and partnering with Mon-El, but not so much with Jimmy himself, so Jimmy throws it in Kara’s face that Mon-El’s motivations aren’t as pure as the driven snow. You know, unlike Jimmy’s own motivations which are all 100% selfless.

Oh, Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy. If hypocrisy and jealousy were a currency you’d be banking enough to rival Maxwell Lord.

No, Kara is not a door prize. We know that.. She needs to tell James and Mon El that. Here's hoping something similar is in the dialogue soon. I will be tickled to hear her say it.

Ink Slinger some nice points there. Can't quote your whole thing so I'll just say some thoughts. Basically I loved your take on this. Below might sound a bit ranty, and does contain some criticism of aspects the show. I'd like to declare before hand I LOVE THIS SHOW, and this show means more to me than some of you can imagine if you'd read a post I made long ago.

Comparing Supergirl to the Flash raised an interesting point. Supergirl is my favourite show on TV right now for many good reasons, but if I was to be rational, The Flash is likely narratively structured better at least so far.

Supergirl has too many arcs for difference characters and devotes too much time to them compared to the other shows. Not necessarily a bad thing but when one of those arcs is as unenjoyable as Guardian it has an impact on the fun of each episode.

James feels like he has equal weight to Kara this Season, which shouldn't be right. The show isn't called Supergirl and Guardian. The Flash's support team understands enough that each should help to their capacity. Cisco and Caitlin are definitely heroes, but they don't suit up fighting crime in the streets. Before Wally got powers, he expressed his heroism in an appropriate capacity, driving his car to help Barry and others. Never once has he received the delusion to ask for a suit from Cisco and fight villains in secret.

Meanwhile, amidst Alex deciding to hang with Maggie, give up, hang with Maggie, give up (Sanvers has been pretty good so far but at times it's distracting), Jame's childish stunts and newer constantly generated social conflicts between the previously cohesive Team Supergirl, some of the most important aspects of the season, namely the fact that CADMUS has Jeremiah, has been sidelined. While The Flash is racing to stop Savitar from killing Iris, Arrow attempts to investigate Prometheus, the Legends defend time and find the Spear of Destiny, I can't find a way to finish this sentence with a description of what Supergirl is doing. It seems to be a constant stream of villains of the week.

So I am seeing a lot of dislike to James' role this season as Guardian. First of all that is totally ok and it's good to share opinions. There are always going to be plot points that folks don't enjoy. But on that note I thought I would ask you guys a question. What would be a good storyline for James that you would enjoy? The character is well within canon and has had plenty of history with Supergirl. Is there a plot line you would enjoy seeing?

I did ask that question a while ago with a forum post but no one answered lol. I do believe Guardian is a direct result of trying to address what role does James actually have on this show except it backfired. Personally I reckon he should have just been a Caitlin/Cisco style friend, a mentor with some experience (not in being a superhero though, he has none of that) that gave occasional advice and backed Kara with his investigation skills. I reckon it went downhill when he was written to be a romantic interest.

So I am seeing a lot of dislike to James' role this season as Guardian. First of all that is totally ok and it's good to share opinions. There are always going to be plot points that folks don't enjoy. But on that note I thought I would ask you guys a question. What would be a good storyline for James that you would enjoy? The character is well within canon and has had plenty of history with Supergirl. Is there a plot line you would enjoy seeing?

with his camera as a photographer he could have helped her learn the ropes of being an investigative reporter, they could get into trouble together here and there.

Precisely my friend! As opposed to this faux Arrow Mk.II minus 5 years in hell and League training.

"Why do boys think they can do the work of a female super hero"

Hoping you didn't mean that Mon-El and James are not as good as Kara based on that reason. They aren't as good as she is but surely not because of that. Otherwise you'd be tearing into Jonn and Superman too.

"Why do boys think they can do the work of a female super hero"

Hoping you didn't mean that Mon-El and James are not as good as Kara based on that reason. They aren't as good as she is but surely not because of that.

no its more a "pile on". I mean even Livewire sees it

TV Fanatic - Supergirl Round Table: Shocking Revelations

Perfectly said, SSAV. Keepin it classy, as always.

with his camera as a photographer he could have helped her learn the ropes of being an investigative reporter, they could get into trouble together here and there.

Rschick

EXACTLY

Overall a good episode that I think will be important to the rest of the season.
The really good
-J’onn and M’gann – It’s a special thing when forgiveness helps not only the person forgiving move forward but saves the person being forgiven too. She deserved his forgiveness all the more because she never asked for it. I loved that J’onn needed his “daughters” Kara and Alex with him as he faced an emotional situation.
-That Mon-El told Kara how he feels, it’s her move now. I do hope we get a sister talk about this after Kara thinks things over for a bit. It’s not like Winn where she knew she didn’t like him and it’s not like James where I think last season she liked him more than he liked her. She likes Mon-El and I really hope his secret comes out before she makes her move or she’s going to get hurt.

The Good
-Livewire being the victim instead of the villain and working with Supergirl was a nice twist. Kara is learning that the superhero business like life isn’t black and white. Livewire is a good nemesis for Supergirl because they understand each other’s strengths and weaknesses.
-Alex and Maggie were cute, I guess Maggie’s just hanging out at the DEO whenever she wants now. Alex is right vegan ice cream is disgusting.

What they’re going to have to work on the rest of the season.
So the only person who wasn’t keeping a secret (ether about Guardian or whatever Mon-El is hiding) from Kara was J’onn and that’s hurt her. Someone brought up a good point I wonder what Clark would think about Guardian. I was hopping Supergirl/James/Winn would come to a compromise and I think they will but they’re not ready for that yet. J’onn should have put Winn on probation, people could have gotten hurt because Winn kept important information from the DEO. I find it interesting that J’onn didn’t try to make Winn stop helping James.
Kara is basically more alone than she ever has been since she became Supergirl. Winn’s deception will cut deep. He purposely designed that suit to deceive her, not sure if she’s put that one together yet. Winn may be unconsciously distancing himself from Kara because of her developing relationship with Mon-El. What she said about James and Winn getting killed is true but she could have used a better argument. It did seem she was implying that a hero needs superpowers and in that she was wrong. That being said I don’t want her to be the one to apologize. I am going to play the women apologize too much for speaking their minds card on that one and I won’t apologize for that. Let’s not forget Alex knowing about Winn and James and choosing to keep that from her sister, I hope we hear a good explanation on that one. Everyone including Alex and Maggie owes Kara an apology for keeping Guardian a secret from her before she can fully trust them again.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out and I am going to trust the producers have a plan.