Yeah about saving Jeremiah......

After Barry learned Savitar is going to kill Iris, that's all that's on his mind right now. After they learned Jeremiah is in mortal danger.........Kara and Alex.....basically so far don't seem like they care

Coming late just to say a few things:
a. I wish Kara wasn't left alone at the end of the episode. I felt really sad for her.
b. I think when Kara told James that she cannot be a hero because he is human, she didn't mean in terms of the actual things that make a hero--kindness, compassion, and a willingness to put others before oneself. I think she meant that he is not invulnerable. And considering that she has lost her entire planet, I think it is a normal reaction for her to have.
I mean come on; she has lost so much; isn't it only natural that she would fear losing more when she hears her closest friends are putting themselves in danger? I know some people might think that it was Kara being condescending; but I think it was Kara being too fearful. And also, she does say it at the end: that for the record, Winn and James were heroes to her way before all this.
(By the way, I am always surprised that Kara doesn't bring that same logic of "humans can get hurt" to Alex though. I mean, she kind of takes it for granted that Alex can constantly put herself in danger.)
The weird thing is that Winn and James completely disregarded her; her feelings... They don't care about that any more. Alex did... (earlier when she asked them to reveal their secret) but well, we didn't have a scene on that. More than any episode this season, this one deserved an Alex-Kara interaction where Kara gets to rant and be emotional and have someone take care of her. I do hope in a couple of episodes, Alex also pays some consideration to Kara. I don't want her to drop Maggie or her dating life; I just want it to be balanced.
c. I agree with what Lindy said on the comments section of the episode that Mon El is egging James on. That comment about "Desk job" and being "handsome"... that definitely was a jab. Oh, I don't think he is bad or evil. I sort of like him when his only motivation is not getting Kara to fall for him. But, I don't think he is as great as a lot of people think he is. He is definitely no Kara or Clark (or Alex or J'onn).

However....
I really loved how Kara talked Livewire into fighting with her; that is one of the reasons why I love Kara. That owing to her idealism, she can talk people into doing great things.

And... I really loved the J'onn-Alex and J'onn-Alex-Kara scenes. They were wonderful. I liked the M'gann scenes too but would love some scenes between M'gann, Alex and Kara.

About the superhero thing:
What inkslinger said of course...
But, I'd also like to add that the show had potential to show that there can be many ways of being a hero: not everyone has to be a physically violent, crime-fighting person (someone said that on the main episode page; and I have seen this on tumblr too, I think).

Aren't reporters who bring truth to people while putting their lives on the line heroes? Aren't doctors who stay for hours in the operating room to save someone's life heroes?

However, they are veering away from that what with James deciding that heroism is defined by putting on a suit and knocking out people, Winn agreeing and Kara pushing Mon El to do that.
With Mon El, I'd have so loved a character who is just in it for himself but would risk a lot, including pain and death, for his friends rather than someone who is Kara-like. We need just one Kara (and one J'onn. And one Alex. A diversity of characters would be so much better than everyone being a superhero clone.)

Also, hated Winn keeping secrets from Kara. What is with that?

Oh and Brierrose, I think Alex didn't tell Kara James' secret because it was not her secret to tell; I think that if she had revealed it herself, it would have created more bad blood between James, Winn and her. Or, Alex may have decided that it would. I don't think it was her being purposely deceitful.

It would have been nice for them to discuss that, but I don't think there will be one.

Also, just to add to what I mentioned earlier; I don't want Kara to be the one who is supposed to "grow" in the guardian storyline. I think where she was coming from was not narrowmindedness or prejudice and she shouldn't have to apologise for being afraid.

Evrafter, hang in there... I think even the cast can have their ups and downs (everyone is human after all and could have their personal views), but am pretty sure they would bring their best/kindliest/friendliest selves to the show; they have been doing that so far.

The writers and show runners though... They do need to go and watch last season... and perhaps read a few forum posts.

Evrafter, hang in there... I think even the cast can have their ups and downs (everyone is human after all and could have their personal views), but am pretty sure they would bring their best/kindliest/friendliest selves to the show; they have been doing that so far.

The writers and show runners though... They do need to go and watch last season... and perhaps read a few forum posts.

*stands for applause*

Oh, and loved your review of the episode. Spot on.

Favorite line of the night goes to Kara: (and I'm paraphrasing) "For the record, you were heroes to me long before all of this."

Upon rumination, a couple of more things.

I found myself on James side of things when he and Kara talked. It reminded of me of when she so unexpectedly castigated Alex for going off on her own...a very Kara thing to do, btw. I also thought she was dismissive and condescending. But then James has been written in a less that favorable light lately too. Could it be this isn't poor writing but intentional to the story? We'll wait and see. Was Kara beginning to see that James had more to his "I wanna be a hero" desires than Mon El did? Again, we'll see. I find myself unconvinced that the romance between Kara and James is done. I dunno.

One more observation about Mon El...if you have to be trained to care about other people you don't deserve Kara Danvers, or so it seems to me.

I think people sometimes forget that Mon-El is an alien. And not just from another planet, but also from a planet that has vastly different values from the general population of Earth and, more importantly, vastly different from those values that were inculcated into Kara on Krypton.

I don’t think Mon-El is as bad a guy as as some want to make him out to be. He’s an alien that, if everything we’ve been told of Daxam is true, was raised from the get go to never care about anything else but his own self-interests and personal pleasure. So it’s not like he was raised with the story of The Good Samaritan on his bedside table.

Imagine, a planet full of hedonists, living only for their personal pleasure and that’s the society and cultural values Mon-El was raised with. That he struggles with running headlong into danger simply because others need his help is not surprising. Indeed, people raised with better values in real life are quick to walk by strangers in the streets who are in need (and actually, Mon-El was previously captured by Cadmus because he had stopped to do just that - try and help a total stranger that was huddled on the street corner - samaritan point awarded to Mon-El). So had the writers made Mon-El of planet Daxam, the biggest planet of hedonists ever, instantly a paragon of virtue I would’ve called bull-pucky. That wouldn’t have been believable by any stretch and not worth watching. So as it is, I think Mon-El's slow transformation thus far is believable and interesting, particularly the struggle between Kara and Mon-El to understand each other. And I, like Kara, can see the potential in him to do a lot of good and to live up to his comic book superhero counterpart.

If Mon-El were intrinsically bad he would’ve never bothered to show up to fight Parasite when Kara was out for the count. Yes, Alex had to verbally smack him upside the head to get him to understand - because again, Mon-El wasn’t raised with even remotely the same ethics - but he got the message and went and stood up to Parasite because others needed to be protected and not because he thought it would score him points with Kara. And when captured by Cadmus, the reason he stayed after escaping was because Lillian Luthor threatened to hurt faux-J’onn. If Mon-El was so darn selfish he would’ve kept right on running out of Cadmus’ compound and towards freedom, but he didn’t.

I’m not claiming Mon-El’s the picture of self-sacrifice, but I’m saying he’s learning that he can be more than he was raised to be. In essence, Mon-El is fighting the old battle of nurture versus nature and Mon-El’s potential transformation into a genuine hero on this series will depend on which side of that argument wins in the end. So, in my opinion, to say that Mon-El only wants to be a superhero to get into Kara’s pants is incredibly reductive and generally misses the point of his character arc. Clearly, he has feelings for Kara, but his actions also point to an inner struggle to be more than just another self-serving hedonist from planet Daxam.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think anyone deserves Kara because Kara’s not a door prize that someone wins at a fair. Kara gets to decide who her friends are and who to become romantically involved with (well, the writers will choose for her character, but you catch my drift). Whether she chooses to become involved with Mon-El or not is firmly her choice, particularly after this episode, that left that ball entirely in her court. But the writers have put this all on a slow burn partly because I think they recognize that until Mon-El can be considered Kara’s equal in terms of overall personal values and in the desire to work for the common good then it will never be a believable pairing. I’m not saying they will always agree on everything (and I hope they never do because their back and forth is highly entertaining) but they do need to be on the same page on the big issues for a romantic relationship between them (if that's where this ends up) to even be remotely believable.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think anyone deserves Kara because Kara’s not a door prize that someone wins at a fair.

Love is a gift freely given; not a reward or a prize you deserve. --Me (although, other people may have said it too).

But, for a relationship to work and be sustainable without causing emotional harm to either of the relationshippee, the emotional stakeholders must be on equal footing. Equal respect. Equivalent or compatable values. Equivalent power and so on.

Love does not equal a successful relationship.

I do agree with you on Mon El that he is a product of his times and people need to account for that. The difficulty some people may have in accounting for that is the fact that he wears the garb of a white straight male who also has quite a lot of money.

I don't agree that he has to be Kara's level of self-sacrificing to be in an equal relationship--be it friendship or something else--with her.

And while I don't know the history of Daxam, I find it difficult to believe that every person in that planet is a hedonistic person, or that that is its one true value. A planet or a community cannot flourish or sustain like that. There needs to be a sense of community, a willingness to work for the good of the planet rather than just for individuals. The fact that the planet never devolved into chaos and utter destruction is proof enough that common human values of "working together" and caring for others were there, and was probably thought of highly (Romans had that; and Greeks). In fact, his willingness to help J'onn and Kara can be taken in that light. To fight for his own, which he would have learned. But, that is philosophy and cultural evolution for you. I don't know if DC or the writers ever take that into account.

And... while it is true that theoretically, you can cut some slack for a person's upbringing, in real-life (and people learn from fiction for that), a person's mistake could still be very costly; if someone is killed, forgiving Mon El will not bring that person back. neither will upbraiding him; but you can make the call of not having him in your team until you are sure of his loyalties and priorities.

As for Kara's reaction, I agree that it was in character. She reacted the same way when Alex first told her that she worked for the DEO. I don't agree that she considers humans less for that. Which is why I don't think it was condescending (as in she thinks less of humans in general or James in particular because of their physical weakness). She just needs to learn that she cannot make people's choices for them and need to accept their right to put themselves in danger. Oh and near invulnerability shouldn't be a requirement there (after all, she does consistently put herself in danger where she could actually get killed too).

If the writers mean to put Kara wholly in the wrong and James wholly in the right, then that would be an injustice to Kara's character. And I am pretty sure there would be outcries. But, I think that is what a lot of people (including myself) fear.

I don't agree that he has to be Kara's level of self-sacrificing to be in an equal relationship--be it friendship or something else--with her.

Well, I wasn’t trying to say Mon-El had to be at Kara’s level of self-sacrifice to be in an equal relationship. If that’s what you took away from my post that’s my bad. I should have been more clear.

I think they should have overall compatible or common values, but when I wrote that they should be on the "same page", I mean in understanding each others motivations. If Kara wants to throw herself into the Sun to save the planet, I’m not saying Mon-El should be just as willing to do the same. But Mon-El needs to understand why Kara would be willing to do that and Kara should get that not everyone, even if they have amazing superpowers similar to hers, is quite that altruistic.

And while I don't know the history of Daxam, I find it difficult to believe that every person in that planet is a hedonistic person, or that that is its one true value.

Yes, that’s why I qualified my remarks with “If everything we’ve been told of Daxam is true”. I realize I’m taking the show’s description of Daxam and it’s people at face value, but I think it’s helpful to put Mon-El into context because it makes it more understandable as to why he just can’t flip a switch and suddenly be the paragon of moral virtue and is instead slow on the uptake.

And... while it is true that theoretically, you can cut some slack for a person's upbringing, in real-life (and people learn from fiction for that), a person's mistake could still be very costly; if someone is killed, forgiving Mon El will not bring that person back. neither will upbraiding him; but you can make the call of not having him in your team until you are sure of his loyalties and priorities.

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment here, but I don’t think Mon-El’s mistake in this episode had anything to do with his “loyalties or priorities”.

Kara and James were fixated on the fact that Mon-El left his position with the cops to save Kara who was fighting 2:1 against the Livewire Wannabes (even though the cops were not in immediate danger at the moment because they were hunkered down behind a van). In this instance, I think Mon-El made a judgement call, but not a mistake. Put Alex or J’onn in Mon-El’s place in that moment and I argue they would’ve done the same thing because, at that moment, the only one in imminent mortal peril was Kara. Mon-El took a calculated risk.

I think Mon-El’s actual mistake came moments later when he was fighting one of the Wannabes and accidentally deflected the lighting towards one of the cops who had tripped while running for the exit. That mistake is exactly the same as what happened when Mon-El was training with Kara and he accidentally deflected a laser bolt at a cardboard cut-out and fried it. But that mistake has nothing to do with Mon-El’s motivations and everything to do with experience and technical readiness. Truth be told, I think Kara should've kept on training Mon-El until there were ZERO cardboard cutout casualties before taking him out into the field, but the plot wants what it wants.

Funnily enough, the fact that Jimmy was utterly fixated on Mon-El’s choice to leave his position with the cops to save Kara, and then threw that in Kara’s face as if it were the "Worst. Thing. Ever." to me is like a big, flashing green sign that says Jimmy’s issue has nothing to do with Mon-El's motivations being less than purely altruistic, and everything to do with jealousy.

If Jimmy were really concerned for the public, he could’ve have easily argued that Mon-El wasn’t ready because he was making technical errors that put people in danger. But no, Jimmy’s all derriere pained that Kara believes Mon-El is capable of being a superhero and partnering with Mon-El, but not so much with Jimmy himself, so Jimmy throws it in Kara’s face that Mon-El’s motivations aren’t as pure as the driven snow. You know, unlike Jimmy’s own motivations which are all 100% selfless.

Oh, Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy. If hypocrisy and jealousy were a currency you’d be banking enough to rival Maxwell Lord.

Oh! I'd like to add that, as many in tumblr pointed out, Kara saying that "she doesn't have to work alone" but has "Mon El" to help her and support her was out of character.

She has DEO and Alex and J'onn. Did she forget that? They have always been her backup. She has rarely been alone in her fights.

I think she made that comment specifically because this was Livewire she was stressing out about, not because she has forgotten that she has the DEO, Alex, and J'onn to help her.

Livewire can kill humans (e.g, Alex and other DEO agents) easily and instantly, and as powerful as J'onn is, I don't think he's impervious to Livewire. So for Kara, having to deal with Livewire who is so deadly and also very willing to kill anyone she comes across, it probably feels like even if Alex, J'onn and the DEO were to be there as tactical support, there's little if anything they can do because Livewire's lightning-throw style of attack isn't one they are quite capable of protecting themselves against.

But having Mon-El as a partner, who seems to be closer to Kara's level of resilience when it comes to Livewire's type of superpower, made Kara feel better because she saw it as having someone there who had the power to help her fight Livewire (and still have a good chance of coming out of it alive) and also as someone that could protect others against Livewire's attacks while she could focus on fighting Livewire herself.

Note that even last time Kara faced Livewire last season she declined help from the DEO (Lucy offered) because Kara told Lucy that Livewire was just too deadly. Kara instead faced Livewire (and Banshee) with Barry/The Flash there to help her.

(Though, I don't know why Kara and the DEO don't just arm themselves with Nerf Super Soakers and take aim at Livewire. But maybe Earth-38 doesn't have water guns. *shrug*)

No, Kara is not a door prize. We know that.. She needs to tell James and Mon El that. Here's hoping something similar is in the dialogue soon. I will be tickled to hear her say it.

TV Fanatic - Supergirl Round Table: Shocking Revelations

TV Fanatic - Supergirl Round Table: Shocking Revelations

Did they even watch the episode.....usually their roundtables are pretty good. This one in reference to the White Martians was like they missed an entire conversation at the end between MGann and Jonn..

Note that even last time Kara faced Livewire last season she declined help from the DEO (Lucy offered) because Kara told Lucy that Livewire was just too deadly. Kara instead faced Livewire (and Banshee) with Barry/The Flash there to help her.

At the time J'onn and Alex were not there. And, I don't think Kara knew Lucy very well; and her ties to the DEO is essentially her ties to Alex and J'onn. So, no, the situation is not the same.

Even if they were, it just means Kara doesn't learn. Because that time with Barry, it was the humans who saved her. Not to mention, as you said, water cannons. *shakes head*

And besides, what categorised the previous season was that Alex, J'onn and Kara strategised. Even when, Kara was the only fighter.

In this episode, if only she had talked it over with J'onn and Alex, either of them would have pointed out that Monel was not ready for the field. (J'onn had Alex train for 2 years before she got out into the field.). No, instead we had two separate storylines: one J'onn's and other Kara and Monel's with Alex taking any spare time she had to bet with Maggie (although, I know at least this time around, she was backing up J'onn).

The two stories didn't seem to have any connection at all; which is very weird when the show is about Supergirl.

Also Alex! She didn't take the time out to talk Livewire out with Kara and discuss how she can be defeated; try to calm her other than say: "Kara, get a grip!", which I actually found rather rude and hurtful. (Alex is one of my favorite characters, but I can't take her side on this; and contrast this to how she reacted when Kara vented about Winn after his confession and her rejection). The show seems to think that once you have romance, you have everything (oh and romance is the point of life); and they trot out everything else just for some big drama (like episode 9) then forget all about it until the next big moment.

The thing is: relationships are as much about the little day-to-day moments as about the big ones. May be more so, because we don't get big moments all that often in our lives. However, this season, most of the little moments have been between Monel and Kara and Alex and Maggie and J'onn and M'gann with some rare Alex-Kara, J'onn-Kara moments thrown in. In a way, it is even racist (or speciest if that is a word) because you are essentially shipping people of the same species and are saying nobody can understand you better than people of your own kind. (I liked that scene last week where Monel and Kara talk about some toy or something; that added to the show.. and it makes sense for Kara and J'onn to need that. I am not saying it doesn't.)

And Winn, has mostly been playing side-kick to James. (I liked Winn-Alex scenes though).

I joked about it in my earlier comment (about Monel being white, straight and male); but, that is essentially folks' (folks who are against him, not those who like him) issue with Monel. I think that is also essentially folks' (the people who do have an issue) issue with Maggie. That both of them take time away from a Kara story; or an Alex-Kara story or a J'onn-Alex-Kara story.

I am not downplaying the importance of romance to people in real life (or in screen life), mind you. But, romance can take seasons. And they can develop in the background while still having the familial/platonic friendships front and centre.

May be the problem is they have so many storylines going together; there is no time to flesh out any one of them. And of course, with romance they are catering to the CW audience.

Note: I know it is weird that I am saying this when I have been trying to defend Alex-Maggie storyline and gay representation (and have signed up to this site for that) so far. And, I don't deny that it has helped a lot of gay people, especially kids. But, well, I am kind of losing hope that the show will return to its season 1 essentials of strong friendships and familial relationships that held up the show; and Kara learning to find her feet as an alien, a woman, a human and a mix of everything.

Well, I wasn’t trying to say Mon-El had to be at Kara’s level of self-sacrifice to be in an equal relationship. If that’s what you took away from my post that’s my bad. I should have been more clear.

This wasn't directed at you TheHolyHandGrenade (nice name! ). I was speaking about comments I have seen elsewhere about Monel. And also, the show's own treatment of his story (basically, the stress on his becoming a hero).

And anyways, I don't think the mistake was essentially Monel's. He has, afterall, no experience. I thought the issue was Kara's and J'onn's and Alex's in letting him take to the field in the first place when he was ill prepared, and when so many lives were in balance.

In fact, the whole operation seems to be ill thought out. Kara never even takes the time out to watch prison footage before dashing out. And yet, she has the time to take Monel out as support.

And it is highly amusing that in her interviews, Melissa keeps talking about how the show and this season is about women supporting each other, but the show has essentially been split into three parts were you have Kara supporting Monel (and viceversa), Maggie supporting Alex and Alex finding love, and J'onn growing to accept White Martians (again not treated with enough depth in my opinion) with the help of M'gann.

Oh and the fourth thread of James learning to be a hero for some reason with Winn's support.

The only women supporting each other thing I can find is Kara supporting Alex with the coming out. Well, there is some Kara-Lena as well, but it doesn't feel the same since the major chunk of the season and the storylines is devoted to the other threads mentioned above. Everyone is basically existing in silos.

Note: I am so sorry for sounding so negative. It has just been building up I guess. And, I am sure most of you enjoy the show very much for other reasons or may be the same reasons that I have issues with. And, I am not trying to take away from that. I hope you will continue to enjoy the show.

But, well, I am kind of losing hope that the show will return to its season 1 essentials of strong friendships and familial relationships that held up the show

Hi SSAV, I enjoy reading your posts, you share some good insights.

Re your comment above, this has become quite noticeable, there must of been about 10+ members of this website make similar remarks this past week that the strong familial/friendship bond of Season 1 has been lost so far in Season 2. Not sure if will come back this season either as they're currently writing/shooting Episode 16. Maybe it will come back in Season 3.

I'm still enjoying the show though as I watch it predominately for the fantasy of Supergirl but like so many others am missing the family/close friendships that was such an enjoyable part of Season 1.

not sure what you guys are looking for? there have been plenty of danver sister moments and space family moments.

Lets walk through the season shall we! I assume you know episodes well. Lets walk backwards

episode 10: I think we got 1 of the sweetest space family moments ever, space dad is unsure what he is about to go through but is sure it will be an emotional journey so he asks his daughters to be there for him.
episode 9: Kara says to Alex "you found us" to which Alex replies "always!". When Alex is about to go through the portal J'onn to Alex " bring our girl home". when they exit the portal J'onn is right there to hug Kara.
episode 8: Thanksgiving scene had some very fun sister beats. Later after finding out her dad created medusa Kara needs a reassuring pep talk and J'onn is right there for her. Also could anyone else on the planet ground supergirl like Alex can?
episode 7: light on Melissa Benoist scenes in total as she was filming crossover stuff.
episode 6: not 1, not 2, but 3 amazing sister couch scenes. cameo from space dad rolling his eyes at a drunk kara unable to go check out the scene of the crime.
episode 5. not much space family here as it was the beginning of Alex's journey
episode 4. the girls get J'onn to talk about M'gann. J'onn preferred to keep it close to the chest but Kara threatened to super pout and who could hold that off
episode 3: J'onn and Alex sort of laughing at Kara for her nerding out over meeting the president.
episode 2 and 1 were both intentionally light on space family to showcase Kara was unintentionally ignoring Alex with being to engrossed with Clark.

There are 2 major differences this season so far.
1: it is no longer episodic, sure there is a plot to each episode (livewire, parasite etc) but the character arcs, the relationship arcs take place over several episodes.
2: No Cat Grant. without Cat there isnt as much Catco thus not as much Kara being Kara. The Catco time has been replaced by sanvers or guardian.

I see lots of people saying Kara has no story. Kara's story is simple; you see her original purpose was to look after, mentor and take care of Clark and she is now getting to fulfill that need with Mon-El who needs someone as patient and caring as Kara. besides that almost every story will cross her path at some point. Look at guardian, while not a fan of the choice of the guardian/james arc it has kept an otherwise useless character relevant. While the arc started off in a total different place it is now in Kara's lane.

I suggest paying less attention to shipper fan echo chambers and find places that will give more balanced reviews and then venture into the shipping lanes and have some fun.

Respect to everyone's opinion who is frustrated that the season is different from the first. I'm with you Rschick I'm enjoying this season. She said it herself in E4 Kara's mission is to be Mon-El's mentor on Earth which BTW could be part of the reason she's reluctant to act on her feelings for him. Season one established how close Kara and Alex are almost to an unhealthy co-dependent level. They've found a healthier balance with sweat smaller moments rather than big ones. It's not necessary to keep hitting the viewers with how close the Danver sisters are. Kara's supporting her sister by letting her have new relationship time with a Maggie. The show is establishing how the new characters will relate to the established family. James is the outlier i'm not sure what's to be done with him.

Guys, with all due respect, I think the show needs to regain its soul. I look at Season 1'again and I see and feel something is missing. Yes, I do like some of the characters in this season, but messing with sisters night is a mistake. I think the loss of Calista Flockhart and Peter Facinelli hurt the show. They have been unable to replace them with an obvious similar calibre of actor. I think Chris Wood and Katie McGrath are excellent additions. It would be great if they could shmoose someone of Calista's calibre and join the show as a regular.

I am really enjoying the season, but I also find that I am rerunning as many episodes as I once did. I am, however, looking forward to the great Sterling Gates' two episodes. He is the master and I expect a lot of fun from him.

Argo

I am really enjoying the season, but I also find that I am rerunning as many episodes as I once did.

Argo

THIS right here, Argo. Same. The first one I re-watched in a very long time was last week's. Other than last week and the two Superman episodes, I haven't re-watched any of them this season. I WILL maybe re-watch particular scenes. But....Last season I would watch the first airing, take an hour break, and then re-watch again that night.